The Sports Card Market Is Surging: Mike Gioseffi on Wax Prices, Live Selling & The National

What's the state of the hobby? The market went nuclear. It's worked out well. Give me the recap of the perspective around what's changed. The amount of people who are coming in off the street. The growth is crazy. The goat pricing is nuts. It's Gretzky. It's Jordan. It's Kobe. It's Larry Bird. It's Griffey Jr. I am to the point again where I'm starting to think, man, that cash out number is wild now. If we emptied the safe this one time and things came down, maybe we could buy a few things and just kind of run off into the sunset. Just feels like there's way more volume and activity and more collectors. Right now, there's no ceiling. Welcome to the Collector Nation podcast here on the Collector Nation Network. Whether you're chasing grails or calling bluffs, we take you inside the hobby. Here's your host, Ryan Alford. What's up guys? Welcome to Collector Nation. Hey, we're going to go, we're going to start where we really started. It was episode one. Actually, one year ago. He may not have remembered it, but I did. He is the voice of the hobby, Mike Gio. What's up, Mike? I remember the introduction. Yeah, a year ago, dude, absolutely. I was in person with you, though. You were a foot and a half taller than me, so it was great. Yep, I was sitting on phone books dangling my feet like a child next to you. We had a good time. It was perfect. What's up, brother? Not much, man. You've turned this... I mean, dude, now you have a card shop. You're like full-time. Back then, it was like, man, there's a lot of weird crap, but I kind of want to be involved. And now it's like, dude, you're in the world now. Oh, I'm in it, man. I'm swimming. I'm doing the backstroke, drowning in the deep end. I said I wanted to be authentic, right? I wanted to get in it. Oh, man, I'm knee-deep, waist-deep, whatever you want to call it. Very nice. It's fun, though. It's been good. It's everything I thought it would be. I knew it wouldn't be easy. I haven't done enough business. I've been around the block. I'm not 24. Yeah, I started business. Sure. I know what it means. And it's been all of that. But it's been a good journey. It's fun with the boys. Gio, I think we probably – I need to go do a tour because I've been saying this and it's probably not fair. But I think we have the flagship store in South Carolina. I'm just saying. Really? Now, we don't have the allocation of all of those stores, but the experience, I don't think there's a better. I mean, we're 3,000 square feet. It's a sports bar meets freaking the hobby. Let me ask you this. Biggest challenge in the hobby so far, then? Because you're in this a year now. You're fully ingratiated, whatever the word is. What is, like, number one challenge for you to date? 100% sourcing because we don't have allocation. Yeah, okay. But, I mean, you know, it's like I do everything else. I mean, we've... We've broken every record. I mean, like, I can't imagine. It's made me work harder. It's made our team work harder. But it's like, I can't imagine. I mean, how much I've had to work with sourcing and being creative and doing things, and we've forexed the sales that I thought we'd do. If we had, shit. We'll do a million dollars here this year of a first-year hobby store with no allocation. It's impressive. So, I mean, you know, give me allocation. And I'll be like... Off to the races then. That's like throw me in the deep end with the largest – what are those? Flamingo floats. That's what I would be in the deep end. Still love it though? Oh, yeah. Because that was one thing I think I told you last year. I always appreciate – I like being around new people because it's – well, one of two things. Either they're in there like this is overwhelming and stupid and there's too much and I'm out. You were the opposite. You were like little kid in a huge man's body. But like wide-eyed, like everything was great. Still like the optimistic outlook. Yeah, because I love this growing up. I put it on the shelf, but I'm an authentic, old-school Frank Thomas, Ken Griffey Jr., Nolan Ryan lover, like Dave Justice. That's real. And that passion and energy was there and never went away once it kind of rekindled. So it's still there. I'm more excited than anything. I'm building... more things than I can keep up with. And that's probably, my problem is probably more I'm still eating at the buffet. I got you. I like that, though, because so many times it's like, oh, either you're in this as a collector or you're in it as a business. And it is true. If you come off the street as a business and a hobby, I think you leave that. Oh, I've been done. I've been done already. Yeah, because then it's like, if it's just about the buck, it's like, dude, it's a lot of work. It is a lot of work. Yeah, if there's not a nostalgic connection to it, it's kind of like, oh, maybe I should do something else with my time. But if you love it, it's different. So, yeah, I'm glad to hear that, man. Yeah, I appreciate that. And what's interesting, Gio, is like, I've done a lot of things in my career because it was work and it paid well and I was good at it. You know, various tasks, various things you do in your, you know, adult life. And it was a job, though. And I always, you know, I never hated work, but it never like was into necessarily what I did. It was just a job. Sure. Now I'm using everything that I was good at. And I actually like the content of the of the wrapper of the substance of what I'm doing. So it's like, that's cool. Yeah. It's still work. but rewarding though. Yes. Rewarding. Let me ask you one more question. I'll stop trying to conduct this interview on your show. I like this. I like it. Look, you're the voice of the hobby. So you need to take it over. Go. How dare you? Biggest mistake you've made year one business collection, whatever. I don't care. Like what's anything like jump out to you? Cause we all have those nightmare stories like me selling my Brady's back in the day. Anything like first year, like, man, that was the, that was a huge mistake. Do you, what, Bella, who. Bella's critical. Bella's not even on camera. She's very critical over there. She's reminding you. She's laughing as she knows exactly. What would you say it is, Bella? She seems to have the answer before me, Mike. I would tell Bella she better be kind here. The biggest mistake is going to be her making this comment and getting fired. So just, just keep it, keep it clean here. I'll just leave it at two words. Michael Jordan. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Swing and miss on a collection? Oh. Yeah. Is that the card you were showing me last year? Didn't you text me pictures randomly of those 101 Jordans? No, that was a different card. That one did not end bad. And this one ended medium. Could have been a lot worse. OK. Let's just say, I learned you got to, what do they say? What do they say, trust but verify? Oh, no. There's things I can't say that I'm not going to say. Okay. It got handled. But, you know, naivetivity with deals. Sure. So you can imagine. Yep. It didn't end in a complete face plant. It just, it was more difficult than it needed to be. And I think... You know, I'm a trustworthy guy. I'll trust people. I'm just kind of like, I'm not an idiot. I lived in Manhattan for six years. I'm not getting my pocket picked every weekend. Sure. But it's like, there's just bad players, bad people doing shady things sometimes. And, you know, I'll leave it there. But you can imagine. And I think, so maybe less dramatic than that. I don't know if there's any regrets. It's more... I think I see all the opportunities. And I joke about the allocation thing, but it's true. And it's like, there's not, but I can't, this is gonna, the next six months are gonna be a lot easier than the last six. So, you know, it takes a lot to get it set up. And I'm still excited by how blue ocean this category is for certain things. And it doesn't have to be like cutthroat competition. You know, it's like just, there's a lot to go around, but there's a lot of different ways to think about it. And I think if anything, I say it sometimes and I hear myself and I don't like the way I sound when I say it. Like, I'm real dangerous now. You know, like, it sounds so cheesy, you know, and it sounds like arrogant. I don't mean it that way. But, like, the more I'm in it, the more I see and the more I know, not just, like you said, wide-eyed. So, I don't know. I did. I mean, the first thing I was going to ask you, Mike, is, like, what's the state of the hobby? That's wild. Yeah. I mean, so – It's funny. I understand the COVID comparison is always terrible because COVID is like a once-in-a-lifetime event, I feel like, the whole shutdown. But it is similar. The amount of people who are coming in off the street – and I'm talking first time. Like, hey, my first card show, we're going to see it next week. I'm going to go to my first card show ever. It's going to be the National, which by the way, back in the day, people didn't really do that. If you go to your first card show, you went to the freaking – Howard Johnson Hotel lobby or the mall 30 tables. Now guys are like, hey, me and my seven buddies are taking our guys weekend. We're going to go to the national and we're all going to buy a $5,000 card. So there's still a lot of that. Like the growth is crazy. And just the pricing, man, like I don't, I've never understood the young idiots. Like why someone would spend crazy money on Jackson Dart. I will never understand. Mendoza will be next. I won't understand then. But the goat pricing is nuts. Like across the board. It's Gretzky. It's Jordan. It's Kobe. It's Larry Bird. It's, you know, Griffey Jr. And it's kind of like, man, it's... Honestly, I say it best like I am to the point again where I'm starting to think, man, that cash out number is wild now. If we emptied the safe this one time and things came down, maybe we could buy a few things and just kind of run off into the sunset. So it's starting to get to that level again, which is I didn't think we'd see. I thought after 2021 we would always kind of keep a ceiling on things. Does it feel familiar? Because you experienced that. I mean, you've been in the game and, you know, we're before the COVID, then COVID, and then like – Does it feel bubbly? Yeah, it's weird. Like COVID was crazy unhealthy because the biggest difference was a Griffey went from 500 to 900 with one sale, then 1800, then 3500. And now it's like the same card will go from 2000 to 4000, but there'll be 18 sales in between. Just feels like there's way more volume and activity. And more collectors, I feel like. And I hope that's the case. The more end users, the better. But I've bought stuff over the past year that I'm like, you know what? Probably not selling it. Unless there's a change of circumstance in my life. Not, hey, this guy goes up or down with a performance. Hey, something significant happens where I've got to take care of my family with that money. Other than that, though, it's like I want the card. I'm going to buy the card. I'm going to keep the card. Kind of forget about the value of it. What's the difference for you? Like a year, you know, we talked a year ago and obviously my bride died and, you know, new business but didn't know the state and new collecting but didn't know the state of collecting in 2025. Or now you, a year later and doing, still doing breaks, eBay Live, you're on, you know, you guys partnered with the National, like, I mean, what's the – give me the summary or recap of what's changed and the perspective around what's changed. Yeah, I mean a lot of growth for sure. There's only so much time in the day, right? So it's kind of like, hey, what are the avenues? And last year was a real come-to-Jesus moment talking to you. And I've told you this off here too. I like talking to you because I like people who are better at business than me but don't know my space. At the time, that was kind of you. I know you knew it. I don't mean it to – but it was true. Like you've done super successful things. What are the principles that helped you there? And it's like, so that, so that was helpful because last year was a real, for us, like a real come to Jesus. Like either we're going to really put our chips on the table and invest some significant money and assets. And if we're going to do that, the time's going to come from somewhere. So over the last year, like we've really scaled back on breaks, you know, Eddie and his team, my partner on the breaking side are still doing a ton. But my thing was, I want to really focus on content and on singles. And I say this any time, any success I've ever had in business is timing as much as anything. The fact that we went ungodly strong just buying every single we could over the last – starting about a year ago, it just worked out. The market went nuclear. We couldn't have planned it, but it's been a great – it's worked out well. And the content has been cool. You know that. It's competitive for content. It is and it isn't. It's competitive, but there's no one really doing – I don't know. There's still not that bar stool. That's always kind of my gold seal. There's still not really that bar stool in the sport, so we're trying to do that too. Swings and misses with that. It is. And YouTube's weird. I'm just, I'm a year in and just now like paying it. Because audio is always my legacy on the business side. I mean, I have Instagram and yeah, that's cool. And it matters. But coming to the hobby now, I was focused on audio and the audio has done well, but now I'm hyper the last 30 days, YouTube, how important that is. And honestly, building out Collector Nation. We're building that platform out as the Switzerland of content. Yeah. Come all, come one all, you know, like stay on YouTube, stay on TikTok, stay wherever you want. But beware, we're going to aggregate the hobby audience. Because I don't want to watch exercise videos in the hobby. I want to watch just the hobby. I don't want to watch, you know, cooking. You know, all your interests, your interest graph is on YouTube and TikTok and Instagram. And so you get all that lumped together, which is cool for aggregating all of it. But we're doing that for all the hobby stuff. And so that's, and with no allegiance to or care where else you are distributed. Yeah. Which is good. I think the Switzerland thing is good, too, because you know this. As soon as you start not being Switzerland, like even with us, we have sponsors for certain things and we work with certain platforms and don't do certain – it limits you. It's good and it pays the bills and it's helpful and they get inside scoops on stuff, but it also does limit, hey, we don't distribute here or we do over there, so it's limiting. So, yeah, the Switzerland thing I think can be a huge – That's the goal. I mean, don't get wrong. We'll take eBay. We'll take your money. I'm with you. We'll take those sponsor dollars. I guess what I mean, though, is – You know, and I love, look, I've watched everybody's stuff now more than I have. I love y'all. I mean, y'all are a regular on the feed. You know. SCI with Sports Card Investor, those guys. But they're a brand. They can't be an agnostic media company. Correct. They're gonna push the SCI MM content. And I don't blame them, they should. Yeah. And we don't have them on the roll yet, but the goal would be to have y'all and them and whoever. Come one on, come one all. Now I don't, that might be, I'm not Pollyanna, like, yeah, everybody's just gonna play nice. I know shit happens, but like, But there's not going to be conflicts of something or a reason they shouldn't. It's going to be because, like, right now, if you decide TikTok, Instagram, or Facebook, you're not going, well, no, let me – you're just going – that's just another platform to distribution. usually. Now, you might not have the time or effort if you need to maximize the exact post that you should do. I've learned that, too. It can't be all things to everyone. Sometimes, and that's why I'm... TikTok's kind of... I'll let Bella do that for the store, and she's crushing it, but we don't have the time to create the perfect content for every platform. However, it... I do believe that you distribute everywhere you can. Yeah, I agree. That's the premise. So we'll see. A lot of people seem excited about that. We'll see how that goes. I'm more excited the tech because what we're building in how you view it is very different. Nice. Okay. So you're going to watch it through your ears, Mike. New sense is being downloaded. I'm trying to keep up with AI. I can't handle it, man. Just let me listen to it. Oh, I know. It is funny. I did hear your AI you or something. Jesse, one of those episodes. Dude. Oh, God. Don't sit down. The worst episode in the history of podcasts. Not even just ours. Just the worst podcast. I'm all about chat GPT and perplexity now, though. Dude, I do it for everything. I took apart my freaking pool motor at the house the other day. Three hours in, I'm taking pictures every step of the way, chat GPT in it. Oh, I love it. I'm all about screwing around now. It's just a tool, man. It's like having a calculator sitting on a desk. Are you not going to use it? Yeah. I don't believe in like you, like I think, and I hope for both of our sakes, you know, original content rules forever. Always. And I like, and I don't believe in, you know, a hundred percent AI. That's, that's, the wrong way to use it. But I think you can use it as a tool though, to make what you're doing better, you know? Yeah. And it's not going away. Like even just with some of our engineer, sound engineering stuff and production stuff, we'll put things into there sometimes just to ask its opinion and the crap it'll come up with. And you're like, okay, like, yeah, it's, Yeah. It's not going to have an original thought entirely, but yeah, it's, it can definitely help. It synthesizes something, you know what I mean? Like it, cause sometimes I think you just did what I do. Like I, it feeds it back to me and I'm like, that's very accurate. You know, like I, especially when it talks to you. Cause then it'll be like, Hey Mike, notice you're having a pretty hard time with this. Can I assist? And I'm like, don't call me by my first name. First of all, just write your lines. But so Mike, when you say, um, Okay, bought singles, been buying them all year. Is this... Just investment and then reselling? So that's just one of the side gigs of like underneath your whole platform, like, okay, buying, reselling? Yeah, so twofold. So one, we've been, again, about a year ago at the Nationals. As a matter of fact, I was like, man, I think, and I didn't think it would be this year, but my thing was like, hey, in the next two to four years, we're going to see just steady, really steady increases in like Corral stuff. So starting last year, I started buying a couple. I hadn't been buying big Brady's for a while because the market was so weird. So I was like twofold. I remember last year, you eyeing them. Yeah, like I got a couple cards and the value now is insane. And so those I had bought though with the thought of, hey, these are kind of forever holds, grail cards, whatever. So that was part of it. The other part though was we really want to get the singles machine going on eBay Live. Just buying and churning volume like crazy. And we have. The eBay Live platform is nuts. It's still glitchy and it's still new and at times it's hard to find your rooms. But it's like they can give you an audience. For me, that's it. Like anytime, any platform. We've dealt with everybody. We've dealt with TikTok, with whatnot. Phinac's Live, we're still on. They're like, hey, what can we do to help you as a seller? I can do everything. Give me people. You put people in front of me, I can sing Springsteen better than Bruce can, and I can sell cards better than most people. Just put people in my room. I'll go nuts and act like a fool. And that's the one thing they do, man. Their reach is wild. That's great. But to your point, dude, then it's the sourcing, right? Because at first it was like, all right, we'll do a couple thousand bucks a show. And then they're like, well, let's keep pushing. What can we do? And then the next thing you know, you're doing 50,000, 75,000 singles in a show. And it's like... Well, it means I have to go out and buy more. So it's – yeah, it's been a grind. I've got some people under me now kind of helping do that, just go show to show and just start buying and going crazy. But I like it. I like the hustle. I like the single side at least. Yeah. Are you hitting – do you go and visit the shows yourself? Are you walking the floor? I know you'll be at the National doing that, but like – I mean, is National a place to do it though? It's tough. It's so big. It's so much going on. I just don't know. Are you really walking out with deals at the National? It's super competitive. So the National, we have a huge setup to buy. So if people come to the table, it's a great place to sell. So that walking the floor, though, like we did it last year, it's tough. Because if somebody has a crazy – if somebody is giving out great deals, they're getting cleaned out quick. There's more people in that room with six or seven figures cash than if there's a deal like that, they're just clearing the table. But like Nashville does a quarterly show. It's like 1,000 tables now, even more. I think it was 1,200 last – two months ago. Great. Like we had at least – I don't know, probably 30 to 40 deals come to the table. And that one is small enough where you can actually walk around still. I say small enough. It's huge. But you can still walk around and find deals. And then we use Facebook. Like, hey, we're buying. Or, hey, you can consign your stuff to us and I'll sell it. So good and bad. Like National is great to see a ton of stuff to actually get deals done to flip. Yeah, maybe. If anybody's listening, we'll have links to Gio's stuff where you can sell him all your cards at 40%. That's the mandate right here. I'd just like to bring value to my guest, Mike. That's right. I co-sign on that. Thank you. Talking with Mike Gio, he is the voice of the hobby. I'm calling him that. I've called him that for a while, and I think he is. So you are it, Mike. You are him. Appreciate it. You are him. Mike, let me ask you a few things. We all need to recognize the rulers of the world that we live in. Sure. But— evaluate a few things for me. I mean, throw a few things at you. Not meant to. And yeah, you always tell it like it is. That's why I love you. How's tops done since the flip? Yeah. Good and bad. Right. I mean, you know, this too, we work very closely with them. I mean, financially they support it and we were just involved with tops and fanatics. Yeah. Yeah. Good and bad. Like the good side, I would tell you, I think we're getting better product. For me, Topps was a gold standard when I was a kid. Like when Topps came back, I was like, this is awesome for baseball a few years ago. Not that it was back, but when they took over, there was a real change. And the fact that we have it in football, basketball now I think is a good thing. Overall, I also like that it's a company where if there's a problem – Like you can tag Mike Mahan or Mike Rubin on social. And if you do it enough, like they'll respond. I actually think that's pretty cool that they're somewhat accountable. They're trying some new things and not everything works, but like this whole, hey, we're going to sell blasters or megas, whatever it was this past week, unsealed so that you can't flip them. I bought some. Yeah. Like to me, that's a good thing. Like I think they're trying to say, hey, there's a clear issue with people are just like buying these to scalp them. Try to fix it. You know, my biggest complaint has been, partially their fault, and I'm not sure how you fix it, so that's why I hate complaining about it, pricing. Like, dude, pricing is getting out of control with wax. It just is. I don't know what you can do to fix that, but something's got to be done. Like, I just think that's pretty – and I don't care that, hey, we come out with a box for $500. That's what they're selling it to us for, and then it's $1,500. At the end of the day, you're the elephant in the room. You're the gorilla at the table. We've got to find a way. So I've struggled with that. I did like competition back in the day too. I think the world is a better place when Panini has licensing, upper deck. I think when everybody does. I would say that. We work exclusively with PSA as a grading company. I think the greatest thing that could happen for PSA is if Beckett and SGC had the same resale value. And it was just Switzerland where you could go wherever you want and get the same value. I think competition, I think that just drives competition. Options drive competition. It makes people better. But at the same time, if I had to pick one, we worked with Pini for a long time. I thought that was the most out-of-touch company I'd ever worked with. So I would rather deal with who we're dealing with now. I'm hopeful, and I think those guys actually care. They care about making money. I'm not naive. But I do think there's real collectors in the room and people that actually care about the hobby. So good and bad. I like that. And I agree. I don't have, I, I joke on this show and honest, I'll tell it like it is. I probably, I don't know if I'm as direct as you are. That's what I wish I was sometimes, but I, I like to maybe, I don't, it's not that I'm trying to like soften it. I think my natural is just like. I don't know, make everybody get along and have fun and not take it too serious. But I do agree, and I don't know what you do about the pricing. I feel it being not having allocation and trying to source, been creative about it, but it's a problem for everyone. I've been in business a long time. And I don't sit here and go, well, this is how they should do it. You know, like some people. It's complicated. And it's multilayered. You've got – and the breakers and all the breaking that's going on and the amount of hype and the amount of stuff that's moving through that channel – complicates it on top of Walmart and all the large retailers. It's just multivariate, and it's not one answer. But it is expensive, and it's a problem because we've bought some stuff. Topps Chrome football was cool, and they did a pretty good job with that launch. There's still cards that Panini had that I still long for a little bit, but that'll – whatever. But it's the pricing just gets stowed through the roof and then it cools off. And then it's like, I mean, try to buy low, buy high, you know, you know, like trying to sell it and be fair as a shop. I mean, as a shop, I can say this, the only thing that we've gotten, we've got great reviews so far. People come in and go, first class experience. That's what we want. Customer service, but we'll get dinged on pricing occasionally. And I'm like, we didn't get it wholesale. We didn't get it retail. So, but I'd rather it be on the shelf and you have an option to buy it locally. And that's all I can say. But it's hard, man. It's a challenge. It is a tough thing. It is a challenge. I will say, too. I think Mahan cares. And I agree with that sentiment. And I think they know what they're doing. But it's just not an easy job. Yeah, and I'll tell you the other concern I have is the big box stores in the hobby now. To me, it's like Card Vault with Tom Brady. And Jeff's opening another store, and you see these huge changes, especially Card Vault. Card Vault has, I don't know, 10 or 12 stores now that are going to keep opening. But that's another one I see from both sides. Like, yeah, I'd rather you supply 10 one-off mom-and-pop shops. I'd rather Ryan gets allocation and 10 other guys who have quality stores. Granted, the issue is a lot of people lost allocation because their stores sucked. You were hawking your product out the back door. You weren't offering to customers in the first place. Your store experience was garbage. So it's like, I don't care that those guys lost allocation. But there are enough new guys in this and guys that have a great shop and a great experience. To me, it's like, hey, great, then give it to them instead of the big box store. At the same time, I'm like, oh, well, Tom Brady just came to us and said, hey, I want to open 20 stores nationwide. What company in their right mind is like, no, I'd rather not deal with Tom. So it's like you said, it's not cutting. There's not a lot of black and white answers to me. There's just not. I don't have an answer for that. Anybody can say whatever they want. If Brady or a guy like that came and said, I want a franchise in your space. you're probably bending the knee. It just makes sense, but there's good and bad with all these decisions. Yeah, everything has unintended consequences. And even sometimes you're aware of, so a lot of times unintended consequences happen, like... You're like, all you saw was the upside, and then, oh, the downside sneaks up on you. I think they're aware of it, but they don't have an easy if second. And the same with pricing. It's like, okay, well, let's make top signature, instead of it being $80 for a megabox, let's make it $49.99. Well, then you would have just probably jacked demand through the roof even more. Right. It's tough, yeah. Because everybody wants – at the end of the day, and I noticed this a year ago, and it's more true today, everybody wants a $5 pack with a $5 million hit. That's right. Yep. And if there's not enough product available, it's like, well, just print more product. It'll be cheaper. Yeah. Then we get into the junk wax era, which would kill everybody. So even that, it's not a matter of just print more or print less or raise the price, lower the price. There is a correct answer. I just don't think it's easy, and I don't think it's 100% correct, no matter what happens. So – fanatics fest were you there knew any of the guys the whole team went up yeah we hosted the card combine scn which i thought was actually a really cool initiative they did like come in learn how to open a pack here's some free packs open your packs here's how you identify case hits or inserts here's what you do i mean as basic as here's what you do with a card you penny sleeve and top load it put it in a binder here's how grading works there were free breaks happening uh there was way more emphasis on education this year which is great uh And I'll be honest with you. My biggest complaint about Fanatics Fest is the content made around it, that this is coming and it's going to crush the national. It's such a disconnect. Fanatics Fest is never going away, ever. And they told us when they were on the show a couple weeks ago, they're moving it back to June. They did it this year because of the World Cup. Next year it'll be six weeks apart. That card show, Fanatics Fest as a card show, does not touch the National. It is not even in the same realm. And the National is not trying to give you activations and experience like Fanatics Fest. These are two events that are just awesome for each other, quite frankly. So that's the only irritation I have is the complaints I hear about it. Well, yeah, the one versus another. Hey, this is that. And you're going to draw comparisons no matter what because they're both gigantic events. events sure that's kind of where they start and stop as far as similarity goes other than having okay i agree 100 because i went to both last year and then watched all the content this year and it's the same i don't care how they moved it around similar correct it's a brand activation you know that happens to be in sports that happens to have a hobby tie-in and you know it's but it's not what The only reason he gets those comparisons is because two weeks apart. I think this year more than ever, right? Absolutely. But I also think the vast majority of people who go to the Fanatics Fest are not card guys. If you go to the card show, like last year at least, you go to the card show portion of that, that was the least busy place in the whole building. It was still busy. But most of those people are going because Laminya Mall is walking around or Giannis is there or LeBron's on stage. So that event draws all these people in who love sports. Maybe they then see a card and do something with it. Fantastic. The national is, hey, you freaks and you nerds are already in this thing neck deep. Come to the mecca of like here's a billion tables and just go crazy. I think it's perfect. I actually think they complement each other really well. Is live selling – I know how big it is. Is it just continuing to grow? I mean is that what you see? Yeah, it is. I'll be honest. I think we're at a weird point right now that there's a lot of saturation. Six months ago, I was like, oh, this thing is to the moon and whatever. I'm still very bullish on it, but I do think we're at that weird – it's like any other graph. As we go up, there's also little valleys on the way to the top. I think we're kind of there, honestly, where it's like – How many more people can you have breaking the same exact thing over and over again? Yeah, there's that and there's 57 platforms doing it now and everybody's got a gimmick and a commercial about it and marketing and all that. eBay, to me, eBay makes me very hopeful because of their user base. That's still where the vast majority of people go to comp cards. They're using eBay. I think that's the most hopeful I am of, hey, we can convert guys who buy stuff on our platform already and just convert them to live. TikTok had a huge boom when they first started doing it in the TikTok shops, and that's awesome. To me, eBay's got to find the way, and they're working on it, but once they really plug into their base, that's where I think you see the next massive jump. I feel like we're still one tech leap away or two, the experience. It's, it's, I mean, eBay's got their own, you know, tech thing. I mean, they're on a little platform they're trying to integrate. I feel, I both hate it and feel sorry for them at the same time. Cause I know how hard it is. Like, and I like all those people at eBay. I like them a lot. I actually like Jay a lot. I like everyone I know over there. I like a lot. And some of their, their little hand tied on how fast they can, you know, evolve the tech. Yep. But I think all live selling is a blip or two away, experientially. It's good, but it's not great. And it is saturated. And I think, I don't know what the breakout's going to be, but I don't think live selling's going anywhere as an event. It's just another channel. It's just interesting how saturated the hobby is compared to certain industries that haven't even gone there yet. Yeah, yep, I agree with that. But I think it plays into the whole sensationalism, the break, the, you know, the hype. Every characteristic that the hobby is now, that format sort of... just amplifies agreed yeah and it's instant like that's the other thing people want what they want when they want it which is now we have no retention so it's like yeah but yeah to your point i think it's going to continue to grow i think we're just kind of in a weird spot like it's still been very good by the way i'm not i'm not down on it i'm just kind of like okay like kind of what's next because there's going to be 10 next things uh yeah so what's next with it what's um What's the state of hobby content in your mind? You've touched on it a few times here, a little bit here and there, but what are you seeing? What are you thinking? I'll be honest. I would argue that's had the least growth of anything in the past year. Honestly, like what is different about hobby content today than a year ago? And by the way, pointing the finger at myself as much as anybody, like I'm, I'm involved in a company that's, I don't care what list it is. We're top five in media for the sports hobby, you know? Yeah. In some areas, we're probably number one. Other areas, we're not as good. Nothing's changed. You're a D or a... One of those two letters are words in the hobby. So leader. Sure. Yes. So, you know, you have as right as much as anyone to make that statement. So, yeah, I do. I think you're right. It's like kind of, okay, I'm ripping packs. Okay, I'm at a show. I'm doing a deal. Yeah. I think we need our next breakout moment. The Golden Show was awesome for the collectible space. I don't know if it was necessarily great for the card world, but it was great. It was on Netflix. That's a huge leap. I think we kind of need something like that, and we're trying. SCN has always been, myself included, have always been terrible at video content, though. We live behind the microphone. We're great with that. But it's like at some point, one of these companies – you know, we've got to do something bigger and better to reach more people not in the hobby. So we're trying. That's really our goal. That is number one priority for us through the end of the year. We just finished. I haven't finished. We're actually, I got to go in a few minutes. We're going to the studio. We're finally launching this whole new studio. That's the first step. But it's like there have to be some original ideas, you know. And, yeah, I do. I feel like it's just been very flat the last year. Yeah. I think. I think the people that are doing it are doing what they've always done as good or better than they ever have. You're self-included. I think y'all are doing what y'all do great, as good as you've or better than you've ever done it. I would say the same about several of the other leaders in the space. I think they're doing the best version of what they've always done. But you're right, there is a little gap. I mean, I see it. And original content's hard, video especially, because it gets the storytelling and the arcs and the production value. And it's not that you can't use handy cam and all that stuff. It's not always about that. But at a certain point, you cross the chasm of a story ain't good enough. And I'm saying like a... I agree. I think you're spot on, man. That's the one area, though, that I'm like, nothing's really changed. I got guys making deals at card shows. I got guys yelling about a card they got. I got people being excited and surprised about what came out of their repack. And I get guys like myself making commentary on all of it on a podcast. Great. I'm not saying that needs to go away, but I do think at some point one of us needs to crack the code of what is next. So that's been a big area of frustration on our side, really trying to do that well. Well, you and I should just brainstorm on that, Gio. I mean, you know, like we're in Switzerland here, man. Switzerland, you know, treat me like Switzerland. I'm fine with that. I like working with you. We were working with you last year, man. I thought, again, I think you have a super different perspective. You like people. I hate people. You're tall. I'm short. You're southern. I'm northern. There's a lot of, there's a lot of, it works for a lot of reasons, but it is true, man. I don't need to make content that the same 500 card guys are going to watch. At some point, it's got to be content that is just standalone good content. Period. My best example, by the way, people, I wear this freaking thing out. I watch the West Wing every – as soon as I finish season seven, I start up season one again. I watch the same five dramas over and over again and repeat in my house. I've never voted a day in my life. I don't care about anything political. That's just a great show. I need a card show, a hobby show where no one cares about the cards being talked about. It's just freaking entertaining. Yeah, it's a formula. There's a formula there. There's got to be something. And that's what it is. What you just named, there's formulas to those programming that keeps people coming back. And not because it's repetitive and you're boring. No, because people like to have an arc and have a story in a format that's familiar, but also entertaining. And so... Well, all right. Put a note to self. Gio and Ryan, figure out the story arc. Blockbuster idea. New hobby content code. We'll talk about that at the hobby. I mean, excuse me. Write that down. Yeah, write that down. I'm talking with Mike. Gio, he is the voice of the hobby sports car nonsense, the leader in hobby content. I'll give him that title, too. mike i know you got limited time and stuff we're gonna be at the national i think i've got a rapid fire uh segment here that can doesn't have to be one word but i'd love to so you could be one word quick or you can expand as you want okay love it yep most overpriced wax anything basketball Best fun rip. Recency bias. Top's finest baseball has been all over. I love it. We talked about that. I absolutely love it. I'm not even a baseball guy and I'm having fun ripping. Dude, that's the best looking product of the year. I friggin', yeah. Yep. It's beautiful. One player market that Gio likes the most right now. I've been going wicked heavy with Patrick Mahomes. I think he's having to bounce back. Yep. Smart man. Let's flip down the other hand. One market, a player's market that you don't trust. Not Jackson Dart. Jackson Dart sucks. The Giants suck. I know. That's a layup. You got to go like one layer deep than Dart or last year's quarterbacks. Yeah, I'll be honest. The two years ago guys make me real nervous, man. Drake May, and I'm a Pats fan, and I've been buying Drake May because I'm sentimental. I really start to worry about a guy like Drake May. I'm not sure with that schedule. We're going to see what he's made of this year for real. I'll switch it up to a little bit in baseball. I've gotten sick of making excuses. Acuna is never going to stay healthy. He's unbelievable when he's healthy. He is not a healthy player. It sucks because he's great, but I've been burned so many times. I just – you kind of get to the point where it's like – and then even if he comes back, he's lost so much footing. I really worry about those two, though. Drake May, Jaden Daniels, and Acuna are my three that I'm very – hesitant with right now. I like all three of those guys, and I agree with every bit of what you just said, because I totally agree. And I think Daniels doesn't have the frame for the NFL, I don't think. I said that when he came out. I said he's the most talented player in the draft, but I don't know if he's going to stay healthy. I hope I'm wrong on that, but we'll see. By the way, one more real quick, a little bit closer. Giannis is another guy that scares the crap out of me, dude. I wanted him to make this blockbuster move. Miami A is not it. Miami is not a contender. And then you start looking at his age and health, you're like, cool. His whole game is being physically dominant. You're starting to get to your mid-30s, coming off leg injuries. Yeah, I was all in on him when I thought he was going to Boston. And even then, I'm glad he didn't because I think I would have gotten crushed. But what's the best thing that Topps is doing? Man, hard to argue with Fanatics Fest. I wasn't even there, but the reach of that frigging thing is unreal. I think it's awesome. What's the worst hobby complaint? You know me. I hate content, people. All the pukes in content. I do. God. It's all the whining and the little back shot. You see people and everybody wants to be friendly at the national. I just want people. I want the cage match. That's all I want. We can be friends after, but let's not be fake friends. Let's have the cage match. I've often said me and Jesse would not lose. Partners in the hobby, tag team, we're not losing. uh i'll can i just be the referee deal that's fine i don't want you on the other side yes that's fine celebrity referee i'm never fighting to you i'm in i'm either on his team or i'm the referee helping him cheat um most fun cat card category right now at football i'm all in football right now i love it ramping up with the season like i think it's awesome Is the rookie class any good? No. Terrible. Absolute dog crap, and it's a one-trick pony that's going to play for the Raiders, who are just traditionally garbage. That's what scares me, too. God, it's going to be bad enough, and then he's playing for the Raiders. It's like, if he wants to be good, even if he is good, I don't know if the Raiders can allow it to happen. Yeah, not good. Nope. What's one card you regret selling this year? Oh, man. I sold my 9.5 Jordan. That was one of my big coming out parties on eBay Live. Yeah, it was. $20,000, $30,000? Yeah, something like that? $28,500. $28,700. What's it worth now? Got to be at least $60,000 or $70,000. I haven't even comped them recently. But, yeah, it's doubled. And what's sad is I paid $65,000 for that back in the day. So it was one of my biggest losses ever. Actually, probably my biggest loss on a single card. Would have been five years. Who cares? But, yeah, selling that thing. One thing collectors should stop doing. Complaining? Yeah. Like, just be smart enough. If you hate something and keep doing it, the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. If you're miserable doing something, just stop doing it. If you hate ripping packs, stop ripping packs. If you hate content, stop watching content. Like, just don't do things that make you miserable. Seems like this hobby loves to continue to do it, though. We're stupid enough to think it's going to be different, and we're also dumb enough to think we can complain and people will care. Yeah. Misery loves company. Oh, absolutely. What's one thing Gio wants to see at the National? I'll change that just to hear what you're thinking about it. Like you've done it a lot. You know, this you're you could probably get. All right. You love the hobby. You're in the hobby. It's your business, but you've done it a hundred times. But what are you looking forward to the most? You've been there, done that. But what gets you excited? Yeah, I'll be honest. The National every year I make my list, and I've been starting to work on it now, I try to find a Grail piece every year. And by the way, Grail for me is not always an unbelievable $10,000, $20,000, $50,000, $100,000 piece. Sometimes it's a $50 Griffey. So that is always my thing. I want to find one thing on my list. I've done it every year for the last eight to ten years. I've got some weird things this year I'm looking for. So, yeah, finding that one thing. makes my trip. Like, yeah, the sponsored dinners and the corporate crap and securing deals for the rest of the year and buying and selling. Unbelievable. Love. It has to happen. Give me the one tangible thing I can take away. So when this fairy tale ends, it's like, cool. At least I got some cool crap to show for it. What am I going to spend on the Griffey Jr. PSA 10 upper deck rookie card at the national? What's the price on that? 6,000. Yeah. Is that a good, is that a smart buy at that number? I'm off. I'm off Griffey. Yeah. And I love, he's my guy. I have more Griffey cards than anything on my PC. I would buy that card at three or 35 when it comes down eventually. But yeah, it's six grand. I'm like, I'm a, you know, it's crazy though. I'd buy a nine five right now, 1500 bucks. In what world is BGS now worth a third of the, a quarter of the price? There's some weird gaps right now with pricing in grading, different holders. Is there a possibility you could crack it and get a 10 too? There's a possibility. You've got to find one with super high subs, but it's worth it. Even if you sub it 10 times, if it crosses, great. And if not, you still have an awesome card, and you paid a fraction of the price. Yeah. Hey, that's good insight right there. What else? Is there any other like leaving the audience here with one of those anomalies out there? I'll tell you one other one is super random and specific, which is not going to be helpful for anybody. But like one person, SGC right now, we work with SGC for years. I friggin love that team. I love the holder. I have multiple full set runs in SGC holders. The disparity in pricing there from PSA is out of control. I just bought a Drake May silver PSA 10 prism – excuse me, silver SGC 10 prism rookie card for $485. A PSA 10 is doing $1,100. You're talking 40% for the same card? And that's the same parent company. If you're buying stuff to hold, like, hey, I'm going to the national to buy this car, and I'm holding it, I'm never selling it, I think you can buy stuff in non-PSA holders, and you have nowhere to go but up with them. And it's, I mean, especially if it's back at our SGC, it's the same parent company now. I have faith they're going to be around in 20 years. I'd rather have the upside of just having it in that holder. Always smart, always real, always the voice of the hobby. Mike, it's been a pleasure, brother. Hey, we'll do it again next year. I can't wait. Yeah. No, we'll do something. We'll do something at the National. We can do the floor walk. We can do the podcast studio. Let's have you up there. I'm in. Absolutely. I love it. Let's break it down. I'm going to write down some cards I want Mike to buy with me or something. I've got to make some deals. I've got some stuff to trade more than anything. I've got some pretty good stuff, Mike. Pretty good. Pretty good for trading. I got a couple Jordans, a couple things in mind. But, Mike, drop the deets for everyone. Everybody knows who you are, but drop any new URLs, locations, things, all that stuff. uh sports cards nonsense everywhere if we're looking for us on ebay doing our live single shows and breaking over there sports cards nonsense is a channel that's our channel name on fanatics live uh yeah instagram the facebook group all that stuff yep love you brother appreciate you yeah good to connect again man hey guys you never find us the collector nation.com we are the switzerland yeah we're bringing them all bring all the big hitters number ones the voice of the hobby everybody But it will always be top of my mind, top of my heart, the number one on this show. Mike Giosefi, Sports Card Nonsense. Go check them out. We appreciate you. See you next time on Collector Nation. Thanks for tuning into the show. Be sure to follow us on your go-to podcast platform and catch the full video episode over on YouTube. Visit us at collectornation.com and follow Ryan on Instagram at Ryan Alford. Now get out there and collect yours.