Real Talk with Gio (Mike Gioseffi) - the Voice of the Hobby on Sports Card Nonsense

This is the Collectibles Podcast on SI, part of the sports card nonsense media network. From Jason Grails to Colin Bluffs, I'm going inside the hobby. Here is your host, Ryan Olford. Yo, what's up guys? Welcome to Collectibles on SI, your home for the hobby on Sports Illustrated Network, part of the sports card nonsense media network. I am Ryan Olford, your host, and I am pumped. I get to do what I love, talk about the hobby, get to join this space. I host another show called Right About Now. It's the number one marketing and business show on Apple, been doing it for seven years. But I grew up in the hobby. I grew up collecting cards and on the set, you can see the cards, the shoes. Want to give a shout out to my guys on the sports card nonsense network. Yo, Jesse, all the guys that are a part of that group that have welcomed me in. I appreciate it. I want to do justice to the hobby and just bring another gear and a fresh perspective. A dad has four boys here, ripping, selling, talking to business, sharing insights, news. Of course, the latest and greatest in the hobby and some of the best interviews on the planet. But I just want to be authentic and true to this space because I'm blessed to get to do this show. To come to you twice a week, bringing you the best and brightest hopefully in the hobby. That's the goal. You know, we're going to talk about all things in the hobby on this show. But admittedly, the boys and I are into kicks and cards, probably more than anything else. We have a dose of Pokemon. Yeah, a little bit. We're more sports card guys, football, basketball. But we're light on baseball. And that's probably the good, you know, switch with us and geo with the guys. Geo with the guys. Geo with the guys are big on baseball. We're more football guys. You know, we grew up in the South, Climps and Tigers. Woo! Go Tigers. Climps and grad and literally, you know, bleed orange. But the show is going to be about bringing all perspectives and everything happened. N-I-L's crazy. There's so many topics to get into. I'm so pumped. This show is built for you. And I'm really excited about the interactivity we're going to bring to this, bringing some of the things we've been doing and podcasting to hopefully make it a more engaging show. Talk a little bit. But hey, I'm going to let this, the specialist talk. So I'm just like you. I'm a collector at heart. And I'm here to learn as much as anything. Got, you know, got my takes. Got a business savvy to me. Running four companies. Podcast network. Running the right about now. Your business show. But I'm here to bring to you and curate the best in the hobby to sort of bring it all behind the scenes. And use the access that I have to show you what's happening. And also show you real time what's happening with me and the boys with what we're collecting. And I guess more than anything, you know, the hobby is really turned into this business which I love. But I also want to get it back to what the name of the show is. It's collecting collectibles. I'm just pumped. Excited to be here. There are a few segments. A few notes. One. Here's what I want you to do. If you're listening, you need to be watching. If you're watching, you need to be listening. Because we're on YouTube. We're on social media. We're building this thing. So go follow it. Collectibles.show is going to be the universal handle. That's the website. www.collectibles.show. TikTok. Instagram. And of course YouTube. So depending on where you're catching this now, collectibles.show is where you'll find all of the channels and learn more about what we're doing. And ultimately, we want to hear from you. We're going to be doing every week. Once we get rolling, start getting some missions in case hits at collectibles.show, send in those videos. I want to know the stories. We're going to bring them to life here on the show. We're going to do a segment each week. Once we get rolling and get some videos in where we share that and we want your collections to make it here on the show with us. We want to feature you. Mark calendars. For where we were going to be Tuesdays and Fridays here on the show. This first episode is releasing on a Monday. And then next week we'll be releasing on Tuesday and Friday. We got some big names telling you. Talked about Joshua. We got Gio. The voice of the hobby. Talked to Gio about that. You're going to hear that segment. Awesome. Got behind the scenes of what's happening in the hobby. Why Gio got in. Why he's doing what he's doing. And really the whole hobby is an industry. And how it's opportunity to do this. There is here and how great it is. And that's why I'm here. I'm just here to learn the love and ultimately bring to you something a little different. So stay tuned. Go follow us on social media. Go follow on YouTube. If you're listening and give us some love there and give us some feedback. Give us some comments and be gentle. Hey, first time with this one. There are a lot of shows but here to get better and here to learn and here to bring it to you ultimately so that you can collect what you want. Learn what you need to learn and get inside the hobby every week. Did I mention the King of Cards? He's coming on. Oh, it's my boy. He's coming on too. He's one of the first episodes. After Gio, we got Josh Luber, King of Cards. He thinks up our sleaze of guy named Gary V. Little buddy of mine. Talk a little V friends. He'll be coming on here in the next few weeks. Man, we're lining up the big ones. The big hitters. And then we're going to get into the hobby. Some of the subtle things in collecting. Artwork, memorabilia, all that stuff. Pumped to be here. But here's what you can expect on the show. Great interviews. News and insights. The rad riffs of the week. And then, of course, those case hit pools. And just PC pools from you. Those great stories that we want to tell for that card you hit. I want to bring these stories to life just for you. And I'm so excited to be here. Now, let's get to the interview with Mike Gio Cephy from SportsCard nonsense. I'm just calling them the voice of the hobby. We sat down at the national just a few weeks ago. Had a blast with those guys. Mike is awesome. He tells it like it is, man. I respect him. And we're going to have a lot of fun together. Here comes that segment right here. What's up, Mike? I'm excited to be here. I mean, yeah. I am curious. I don't want to. I don't want to nose the bomb this thing originally. However, you are like this titan in the real world. And you're nobody in this world yet. I don't know to be that disrespected. I'm just like it is a weird. What's the mentality? Give me the playbook. Like are you coming here like divide and conquer? Like you've done the other stuff? Or is this like a... I want to know because it is. Like I've never talked to somebody way more successful than me. In everything else, you're even taller and better looking than me. I love that. You're as good looking as me. But then like totally starting fresh here. Honestly, you know what's interesting? Gio is like a lot of people think that like success and like especially me building personal brand and doing what I've done. Yep. There would be a lot of ego attached to it. Sure. And that would be a fair assumption. Okay. I know how to sort of compartmentalize what's work and what I'm good at from by ego attaching to it necessarily. And so thus, I come into this industry as a humble servant. And I mean that. I know you may go this guy's full of shit. No, I agree from what I do. I actually agree with you. I think we've been working together for a few months here. And my dad, plenty of vices and flaws legally and illegally. However, his first thing, he's like, big guy, that's him. He's like, big business, whatever. He was very skeptical. He met you and he was like, listen to you. He's like, hey, he's all right. And that is like the nicest compliment. He's ever given anybody. That's so. That means a lot. He did. He was like, just a guy. And that's his big thing. If you're just a guy. Yeah. That's like his biggest. So I just thought that was cool. I have four boys and I never thought that, you know, the hobby and business could blend together necessarily. Sure. And I stayed on the sidelines, Mike. Like, literally, I didn't force my boys into the hobby. You know, I think some dads, not force them, but I didn't even show it to them. Yeah. I let it happen organically. And then, you know, they go, they start getting into it. We went to a store. They said that dad bought this pack. I'm like, what'd you say? Yeah. That's my pack of cars. We are cheering inside. We're cheering inside with my pack. And the rest is history. So I mean, I pointed what I've built with my networking things like that, you know, meeting Jeremy and Brian at LudEx. We're in the LudEx lounge here at the national. How do we not mention that? You know, we get driven right into it. But we're here at the national. One of the biggest shows on earth. This is the biggest one ever. Yeah. Not even close. Yeah. I was at the athletics fest. And so I've done both. I knew back to the hobby. Yeah. Which I want to talk about that because I would get us down. I want to close this out though. I'm honored to be here. I really am able to sort of compartmentalize and go. I want to learn. And the way I can learn, the way I can contribute, whatever it might be to this industry and working with you guys on your team is to absorb. Because I have a lot to offer. Sure. But I need to learn. I'm not someone that tries to step into someone's backyard and go, I'm just going to dominate because I dominate or something. I want to contribute because I think the only way that this will work is if it's authentic and organic. Yep. And so I'm trying my best in the Ryan Alfred way to just absorb, learn and not because it's hard for me to do those things. But I do sort of run headfirst into everything. Sure. Yeah. But I do. I'm excited because I see how much potential there is. And the reason I'm on this team is because it's a bunch of guys having a good time but also serious about business. And I think the skill sets I bring, like no one wants to be on a team where they're the seventh man. They have nothing to offer but they're getting the water bottles. Sure. I see my place on this team and but I also respect where this team's already gotten. And if I can do anything to elevate it, great. Love it. And so. That's our mindset too. Like we want this to be like the bar stool of the sports car, bro. Like you have fun, you screw into all the stuff. Everybody can be a star. But at the end of the day there's also the business end of it. Exactly. I was curious though. I was like, man, I've never dealt with like a real alpha in business. You know, because this is a small pond. It is. But I love that gumbe. Well, it's true. And I'm kind of like, I feel like I'm one of the whales. There's a lot of us. But I'm like, I'm kind of a known, a little bit of a known person here. But I'm like, this is cool to have other people who are whales and real ponds and real oceans. I've been shown walking around like watching, you know, you are rock star out there and watching a couple of other guys. And like, you know, in my world, you know, I'm that. That's what I mean. Yeah, yeah. But it's fun. Like, I don't sit there and go, well, you don't know who I am. I mean, if you've noticed, like, I try to tone that down. Yeah. But you also not bashful. Like, which I like. Yeah. I'm not going to be great actually. And I think it's going to be cool for people like your audience to say, hey, here's the journey through. Especially with us when we started, okay, you're coming in. I've been a business for this for years. You already experienced level. It's different. Now to see somebody like Jesse was like that. They didn't know Jesse really well. So for you, I think it's going to be cool for people to see somebody coming back in and like really start fresh. So I know. And I want. But I do. I'm glad you asked that, Geo, because like, I want people to know that as they're getting to know this show and what we're going to do. And we're going to be so integrated. Like, I mean, I'm going to bring Geo on as often as he'll. He's going to say uncle at some point. Because, you know, we're going to try to blend it up and, you know, with the studio in Greenville. And hopefully, I'm going to try to strong arm him into a retail store in Greenville. We'll talk about that. I love it. Dude, I pinched you yesterday. I'm not kidding. I'm in. And so, yeah. So I'm just pumped. And I think it's going to be great with my four boys getting, you know, to see this. I mean, literally guys. So we all have a place for this interview a little bit. But if I've been this before we came on, Geo and two of my boys Hudson and Hogan are ripping. Yeah, Geo goes and grabs a box. I was like, what? Yeah, I'll do it. I thought we were brist and packs for your boys. I'm like, that's cool. And you see how excited he was, by the way. Yeah. And that's the difference, too. There was no camera around. There was not like, okay, okay, here we go. Three, two, kid ripped a pack. He's like, oh, Jayden Danes held it up. He was like, pumped. I was like, that genuine. I was like, this is cool. But we need more of that. Like, there's business. There's everything else. But we also just need, like, if you don't have love of the game, there is no game. It's pure joy. That was cool to see. Yeah. Who is Mike Gia? So I'm a, yeah, breaker, content creator, podcast host. Yeah. And in the car world. Who are you really? Who is the real Mike Gia? That's it. Yeah, simplest form now. Man, all about the kid. I got a two-year-old. And that's it. My wife and kid. Our world has changed. This used to be such a bigger deal. And I called my wife last night. Like, man, I should have stayed home. I should have. And it felt a great time. But it was just like, so yeah. At the end of it, like, that's where it starts and ends for me. My little guy CEO, my wife. That's it. One of the things that I really respect about what you've built and what you've done is in being the voice or one of the major voices of the hobby. Is your ability to tell it like it is. And I'll say this. I've podcasted for eight years. And I'm opinionated. But I think I struggle even sometimes not because I'm not telling like it is. But maybe being as direct as I want to be. Sure. And what I respect about you, though, is you've got a very popular show. And you just say what the hell you want and what you think. And I respect that. Yeah. I mean, it's good and bad, right? Like, sometimes it's awesome. Like, oh, the thing went viral because you called out this person or did that. And that's cool. And then it's bad when, hey, we were a sponsor and now we're not sponsoring. Because it has happened. Like, we've got to cost us money before. So I think overall the thing has done well and it's financially done well. But yeah, that's the downside. Like, sometimes you either got to learn to shut up and play the game or you're going to lose some money. Well, that's probably sage wisdom learning, you know, how it goes. Sure. And that's definitely something to dance around. But like, what's formed your opinions of the hobby? Just experiences in it. Or is there a level of acumen that's come from something else? No, this is it. So I was just doing construction for years. Like, maybe my wife had a tiny apartment, lived in it forever, super content, thrilled. Like, we were happy just having nothing to make it no money. And we were, we were happy. So we didn't care. Had no business experience. But I always was kind of like, man, I would look at things. Like, I think I could do this better than somebody. Like, I think as an ego thing, just I think I could improve this. And then we had a chance to really get into breaking originally. And then just really get into the hobby. And then it kind of took off. But the viewpoint now is just like, I've seen a lot of these guys come and go. You know, which I'm sure you have like in your business. Like, in 2020, there were a billion business and finance podcasts. And all these losers, when they couldn't just point at any stock that was 10X-ing, they left. Because some of these, you actually have to know what the heck is going on. That's how the hobby was. It was like, this dude's got a great camera and is well spoken. More well spoken than I am. Let's follow his advice. And it's like, this guy is a dummy. Like, this moron could get run over by a truck and just look around like, what happened? Just stupid people. But they came across well. Like, snake oil salesman. And I hated that. Like, I just was like, when I sold the company in 2020, I was like, I'm done. I'm retired. I'm going to step back. And I started digging into content. I was so angry. I'm a fiery Italian from Boston. I was just pissed. I was like, this stuff is terrible. You losers who have no idea telling other people. I was like, I'm out. I can't do it. So it was all started out of spite. Everything out of spite. Terrible. That surprised me, though. Hearing that. It's true. Yeah. You know, that's something that's the best things come from. It's all energy and motion. Like, it's like inertia. And inertia starts from a lot of different things. Sure. It's like, what gets that ball moving? Yeah. And as long as it's authentic. That's the other thing. I'm not going out of a way to call out people who are like, this means sometimes people have called, hey, we got a, we got a crush just guy. He did XYZ. I don't agree with it. I just won't say it's like, I don't, I'm not going to crush people just to get the clicks. But if you need to be called out. I mean, that's, that's, to me, that's part of the job also. The hobby's changed a lot since I was hungry. I was the late eight, you know, junk wax. Unfortunately, I didn't come up during the, uh, any of the good periods of like, great cards. I've all the junk wax of the late eighties, early nineties, 91 donneries. That's a good year. Oh, perfect. Good for kindling. Yeah. Exactly. And, uh, bicycle spokes. Yep. It's changed a lot. It'd be easy to lump it all into money. Yeah. Well, that's changed it. Yep. But what's the good and the bad and the ugly of the hobby right now? Yeah. So the good, like I do, like you said, it's almost an easy answer. Like, money has changed it. Money has, but interest is where it started first. Like, people coming in with interest. Those people who had interest in the hobby also had a lot of money to spend. The COVID boom was nuts. Like, there was no other time like that where you could buy anything and just resell it and make a profit. Like, everybody did it and it worked great. But the interest level is different. You know, like the, the finance guys will tell you, now it's like a cool, I always say, hey, us nerds. Myself included, us nerds are in the hobby. And now it's like, now there's a bunch of like cool guys out here. All these athletes do it. It's a different world. And so the popularity is good. Popularity is also bad. You get socially awkward people where this was their escape. Like, I'm going to come here. I'm going to just nerd out on a 25 cent box and build my sets. But this is my safe place. And good for them. And now it's like, hey, can you move away from that box? I got to, I got to film content next to you. Or, hey, this guy's got to be making a deal for 10,000. Yeah. So I do feel like we've squeezed out some people, unfortunately. Yeah. I don't know. It's kind of like the trade off of the industry. It takes off. Like, I can't go buy a house for 20 grand. That stinks. The house I live in is worth a lot more than 20 grand. Cool. That's good. It's kind of the give and take of it. I know. And I had this conversation like yesterday I was talking to someone. And the money has changed. The cost of cards has changed. But I don't know how you put that genie back in the bottle because if you walk around and you want to go, man, I want to make it more affordable so kids can buy a $2 pack again. Well, guess what? Those kids walking around down there wouldn't be happy with a $1 base card. Yep. They all have the parallels out of 10 and walking around with $5,000 to $100,000 cases from 10 years old to 25 years old. It's wild. And so I don't know how you put that genie back in the bottle because everybody's kind of sipping from the same juice now. Agreed. Yeah. And you said it right. I think mean you were talking to like every table you go to is hundreds of thousands of thought and millions of dollars. How are they all worth it because everybody's buying it. Like there is such a crazy market. But it's like, okay, let's get kids involved. I hate to say it but to a degree it's like anything else. Like all kids should be able to go to Disney World. Okay, well, Disney World is now 150 bucks for the day. Exactly. It used to be 20 bucks. Cool. I get it. It's not anymore. Do I feel bad for people who now can't get in? Yes. There's also entry levels though. You can still get the $2 pack. But if your kid's not content with that. I understand that. He sees his buddies with 10 grand but like that's the reality. If you want to get to that point, you got to start hustling at a younger age. That's the good though. Dude, the entrepreneurial level of 12-year-olds in this hobby is obscene. When I was 12, I was trying to climb a tree and like try to be 4 foot 10. These 12-year-olds are like, oh, my ROI on this card is here in my margin and I'm like, great, like that's the world you've graded. So Mike, you're a breaker. Yep. Yes, show. Talk about the hobby. What's breaking doing to the hobby if anything positively and negatively? Where's it going? Because it's pretty saturated now. Yep. And there's always so much product to run around. But I love this perspective just about that sub-segment of the hobby. Yeah, so good and bad, right? Good. It is the fastest growing form of the hobby. People love it. It's the gambling mentality. They've never seen a casino go out of business. No, because people want to chase. I like to think there's more to it than just pulling the slot machine lever. Because there's a community. There's some personal collection aspect to it. But it is the easiest way to get people in. Like you see a guy on a screen. You click a button. You're in. I don't have to go to Chicago. I don't have to go to a shop. So it's good for that. The growth is good. Yeah. The bad is. There's a ton of money to be made. So you have bad actors. Yeah. And some of the worst garbage tactics. Let's hype up crap and hook you. And then as you're slowly losing money, you just don't know it yet. You're so hooked. And then I feel like there's a lot of attrition. Because those people come in and they're hooked. And it's all great. But then I hyped up a card to be worth 200 bucks. They just sold over 47. And now they're like, man, I'm done. Like I don't want to keep doing. So there's good and bad. I think you have to foster a community. If you're just in it for those short term. But it is crazy. Like that area just keeps going on. Is a marketer. I think I have a lot of opinions. But I've never been like the prognosticator necessarily. But in 2018, before COVID, I did a FedEx speech and said, live selling by 2025 will be on its way. Dude. And you've spent that whole segment of live selling. Not just cards and collectibles. A lot of other things too. But that hasn't even, I mean, as a whole, live selling is barely on the uptick of the bell curve. That is the speed with which that is going to increase. I think we're just on the cusp of it. Across collectibles, everything. Yeah. I also think like, look at other markets. Yeah. Like the Asian market with live selling. Oh, yeah. A bit billion times. I'm curious too. Let me ask you, because you're the marketing guy. I have no experience with that. To me, I would look at it and say, I think breaking is the easiest thing in this hobby. The easiest entry, easiest aspect to market. Yes. Like, dude, it's like coming and hanging out with your friends virtually. And we're going to rip stuff. I think that's part of the appeal. Yeah, exactly. I always say like, there's becomes intersections of things that matter. And you have this intersection of technology capability. Smartphones, proliferation of smartphone networks and Wi-Fi. You bickle this nature of connectivity. Combined with these apps and the development of those. Combined with demand and people ready to do it. And there's been this intersection now. And the timing and COVID sped it up. Probably I think it was coming anyway. Sped it up. The lifecycle. Oh, agree. But there's been this perfect intersection where those things have hit. One of the biggest things is, you know, if you go home and you open a pack by yourself, it's fun. But tree falls in the woods, though. Yeah, but tree falls was worth it. I agree. You know? It's so it's the immediate water cooler effect of telling everybody what you did all weekend. But you're live in the stream with them or whatever. And it brings together so many things of FOMO combined with community. People are ready and willing and able now to do community and digital space. Like, never before. 10 years ago, they weren't ready for that. Right. That's where I think COVID probably sped that along. They're like, there's people who are staying at home. Right. And they had it. Like a drum and a half community. It was going to be digital. That's right. And so now it's going a shopping together. And no more I have to open a pack alone. And so now, I think it's the perfect intersection of all of these things. And what's why it's booming. The supply and demand is an interesting aspect of what that does. It's like, once you start chopping up boxes, you know, it's like, in one at hand, it allows you to get access to something. Like, you maybe cannot afford that Prism 2024 football box. It's $1,000. You can't afford that. And especially if I only want the Patriots. Exactly. I don't even want to spend the money to chase them. Like, I just want the ones here. Yeah, I agree. So that's the benefit. Yep. And the negative is, like, chicken to the egg. Are the boxes costing more because there's breaks or, you know, or the breaks just more because more because of the cars. Exactly. And where do you stand on that? 50-50. So I would say this. Box price have gone up. Yeah. Singles have gone up. I mean, I made my money in singles. I collected Tom Brady for, since 2010. I was buying patch out. I mean, I sold his contenders' champ ticket for $7,500. 15 years ago, that card is worth $700,000 now. I guess an extreme example. But that's the example. So I don't want this box to be $500. Okay. Do you also want the single best hit you can get to be only worth 1,000? Feeling in the floor. And I'm skewed, right? Like, I fully admit I'm biased on my break, or I think I do think some stuff is way overpriced. And we speak to that. But it's like, people want to hit the million dollar card now. That's the market. Like the Yotani judge. That's a half million to a million dollars. Nobody wants to hit a 10,000. Even that is insane. People aren't chasing a 10,000 dollar card anymore. We are chasing the 100 or a million dollar. So to that extreme, it's like, so that's kind of where we live with it. It's been some news lately. Sports card. Nonsense media network. Yeah. That's a big deal. So yeah. Very cool. You know, I'm excited to be a part of it. But how do you feel about it, the growth of all this? I'm excited. I mean, like me and Jesse, our thing was we want to do more. Jesse and my coach on the podcast. Yeah. Yeah, we want to do more. But it's like, we're tapped out. Like, I've got a new one at the house. He's got family stuff. We have a lot going on. We kind of brought this as far as we could. And then it was like, we got, we had a good team anyways. Then we get guys, like I said, big people from outside the hobby coming in. With a bigger following. Like, our following is massive in the hobby. Our following is a peon in the real one. So to bring guys of yourself into me, it was like, hey, let's just build a whole network. And that was the, like for me and Jeremy and Chris too. Our vision was like, I kind of dumb it down. Like was was the bar stool model. Yeah. One podcast is cool. Seven podcasts and five shows and 50 clips a week and content about content. And then debates within the team, like we get to that level. And I just don't think there's anybody in the hobby that doesn't. And there's no, nothing authentic. You went there. You nailed it. The last, the last. The last word was the one you didn't say that I was going to. Yep. That's why I'm here. You know, meeting Jeremy, meeting Chris, meeting you. You know, I was like, each of you guys had one hang out with. This is real. Yeah. And I, your show was real anyway. That's why I respected it. I'm like, it's real. And in a way, it's, because where I was going to go next, be the brand got, you know, nonsense. You know, it's like, part irreverence, part don't take yourself too seriously. Yeah. We're talking about pictures of dudes on cards, like chill out. But yeah, that, that is really, and even like the thing about authenticity. Like, does it, does it prohibit certain brands? Because I want Yes Men to make stupid content. Sure. But like the brand, somebody's brand to work with for years are pretty big deals in this world. And it's like, hey, we're glad you're ripped to see the day. Because then when you praise us down the road for something you actually like, it's authentic as well. So I think there's a real opportunity. It's interesting with the brand comment. I think not only are we going to do this together. Yep. Bringing more brands into the hobby. Which is why we need you. And that's, yeah, there it is, dude. Because that is the ultimate golden goose. Hobby money is cool. I'm not talking about Ruben. Hobby sponsorship. Of course. Real money is, is different. Yes. And they need, and they need to be here because when you look at the data, look, I've been digging in the data. Like I'm, I'm a marketing guy and a creative guy and all this, but I'm also a data junkie. And when I started looking at the data, that's when I went, okay, this is hobby and it's cool to boys like it. But this is real business. The affluent audience that's in this industry. Mm-hmm. And their loyalties and the tie-ins to the brands that, I know what I used to recommend to brands. Sure. I'd go, you should be on this and the other from a media perspective. Right. When I looked at the data from the hobby, I'm like, this beats 9 out of 10 things I ever recommended to them. Yeah, here's your extremely heavy male demographic 24 to 50 with expendable income. Like, hello. Hello. Yeah. And by the way, I say male heavy DOM, it is. Like at this point, we're working with some female creators too. I want to build that out as well. Yeah. But I also know at the core that it's like, hey, what's your demographic? Age? Like, who are you appealing to? And here I'm just like, this seems like a home run. But do you think their hobby's ready for more women? Yeah. So we were talking, because a girl named Kayla. I say, girl, she's 20 years younger than me. So she's a girl to me. Authenticity there, I think, is even harder to find. Yeah. There are some women in our hobby right now. They put out a bunch of content. As soon as the camera's off, hey, what do you collect this? Nothing. It's a paid spot. Which, by the way, a lot of companies do that. Hey, we have to have diversity. We need a woman here. Like, I guess. Like, I don't care. Yeah. Good for you. I just want good to people who like the hobby. This young woman was me and Danny met with the other day. I like the Kishi as a crazy collector. She's been in it since before the boom. She was going to cars, which was like 12. I was like, this is what we need. Like, this is a cool thing. The fact you're a girl, great, whatever. You're a collector who makes content. Awesome. So, yes, I want more. I don't want more women in the hobby just to come in and make content. And not be in the hobby. If you're going to come over, we want everybody. If you're coming in for a paycheck, I'm good. We can find other people to do that who also have passion. Yeah. I love that. It's the right answer, too. And that's why it's another reason I'm coming in the way I'm coming in is because I want it to be that way. Like, I don't want to. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I get paid for brands to do whatever. Sure. I wasn't going to do that here until I've spent a year and six figures plus learning the hobby again, understanding it again, playing my own dime, to then go, I have something to contribute and now I know what's going on. And then you bring your outside expertise. Yeah. That's why I think it's like a cool, like you talked to intersections before. Yeah. Dude, you're one of those intersection people. Like, I got the means and the funds out here. I don't have to just be in here chasing the brand money, which I think is great, because some people doing the content have to. Yeah. I got to make X amount of money to stay in the life. I get that? Like, I don't even know those people. Yeah. But like, that was my thing when I came in and that's why for you, you're making your real money there. This will make money eventually. But we get to control who we make money from. Exactly. Which I like. And I think it will, in turn, make it better and bigger deals. Because we don't have to chase it. It will come and we'll build it the right way. It's interesting. You talked to Michael Rubin. Yep. That was watching that interview. It's fascinating hearing him talk about the hobby. Yeah. The owner of fanatics, tops, you know. Everything is happening with licensing. That's been something that's really interesting. That's new with the hot. I mean, I know they had the same deals 30 years, 25 years ago, and I was in it. But like, the Penini thing. He didn't hear about it then either. No, but it's so funny. Eight months ago, but in one of my second boxes of the foray back into the hobby. And I got there's no logos. I didn't know. Oh, yeah. I didn't even know. I was like, I thought it was an air box. Yeah, yeah. I was like, we're the look. I didn't know anything about that. And listening to my Akle talk about it and the license changes and buying a lot of boxes now where you don't have the list. Weird. Oh, great. It's a weird segmented thing for the next year and a half. Yeah. Because we were younger. It was just like, hey, here's tops, upper deck, flare, Don Russ, all different, all independent running. Which I think is great. I also think competition is the best. Because like, if I'm trying to be better than you, I'm going to work harder. Like, I like that. Should the deal have happened? I hate, I mean, Michael knows this, Mr. Rubin. I hate exclusivity of any kind. Yeah. Like, if you've got two people competing, I'm an athlete, like, you know, division nine athletes. Hot tide raises all shit. Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm not like, we're not going like division one. Like, division nine. I mean, the old guys run ball twice a week. Yeah. I play better when I'm playing guys who are a little better than me. I'm going to try to chase them down. Oh, I'm going to be, my jump shot's going to be better. I'm going to use my left hand. But like, I just, So the hobby's benefited from them competing. I think so. So you take that aspect away. Yeah, the good thing is too. Rubin's also like, hey, I make money everywhere I go. I'm not going to bet against him. And they're in this for 20 years. So I'm also like, well, he's not going to tank it. We're not going to overproduce. I know those are fears. But to me, why would you do that? If you can make money for 20 years and grow it like it's been growing. So, but yeah, at the end of the day, if you told me we have three or four companies with licensing, that's my, yeah, that's, that's my paradise situation. What can any guy do? I have no idea. Yeah, and like, Are they going to be able to do what tops has been able to do and sort of eaking out sales without license? Because they sound all these top guys for autos and things. I mean, like, it's tough because even those deals go away. Like the PA. So like, they'll have NIL deal, like Archmanings do an example. They'll have Archmaning and NIL. They have it now until he's a part of the PA. Then you lose him. I also, there's no love loss with me in Penini. I don't like him. I have him for years. Like, the arrogance they came to us with just, I'm sorry. Like, when you come to me with, hey, why do we need you or anybody else? We're, we're Penini or we're any company. It's just like, okay, cool. Hey, when you're king of the hill, like, you can talk like that. And I can do so. You can knock off the hill. You weren't there for up. Cool. Have a good fall. Like, I'm not, I have no sympathy. I know that's terrible. I also know, though, in three years, all we're going to hear about is, man, remember the golden age is, oh, Penini. Anytime you can't have it, it's the greatest. Yeah. Dude, like, it's like, oh, tops was terrible. We hate tops. And Penini takes a license. Man, tops Chrome 2000 was unbelievable. We couldn't sell it. Nobody wanted it. Penini, everybody hates it. Redemptions. They don't fulfill stuff. That's, that's now. In three years, dude, national treasure is the greatest. If you imagine, we don't have national. And that's exactly what it's always, everything else is always great. Nobody ever remembers when you're in the moment, so. That is. We always want what we don't have. What's your thoughts on hobbies? It's broad. Collectibles is broad. Like, Pokemon. Even if you're not a Pokemon specialist. Crazy. Like, that is a subculture in itself. I had never seen it before. Star Wars and everything else. I've never seen it like Pokemon. Insane. Yeah. Passionate collectors. Intelligent collectors. Way better marketers and card guys. You know the Pokemon tables out there? Because they have lights. They have a little spin wheel. They have Pokemon people know how to sell. Like, they are just in general. They are a class above us. They kill it, man. They do. There is a sophistication to them. Oh, dude. Showcase out there with the guys. Like, oh, you want this card? He's hitting like animation on the... I didn't even know how we did it. And I was just like, this dude is literally working magic and selling cards. Like, stupid. It's awesome. It is. It's interesting to be blended in too. We're at the national card. A lot of sports memorabilia show. Yeah. In the country, but it's sort of just blended in. Every show I've been in since we've been back in the game, you see it kind of thread throughout a little bit. So, like, your local show. I know you do the local show that trade out with you. Yeah. So, the split I've been telling Jesse. Recently, there's been some national shows. The smaller ones. 80-20 Pokemon to sports. Longstanding sports shows. What is the mix in Greenville? Like, or that area with your shows? It's 60-40, probably sports. Oh, really? But Pokemon's growing. So, two years ago, though, what was Pokemon? Oh. 5%, 10%. Yeah, I wasn't in the flow of it, but my understanding hearing and talking to people in the market. It's growing faster. Yeah. I think it's going faster. I don't think it's one or the other. It's a different market. Correct. Like, it's, you know, my kids are kind of in that in between days. I got a nine-year-old and a 16-year-old. They're low in the high. And I even can appreciate the artwork of the Pokemon. Do I want to showcase it in my sports, you know, office? No. Yeah. But do I appreciate the art? Do I mind opening some packs, ripping packs to the kids? No. They're fun. And you talk about entry level. Like, I've never seen a new Pokemon box. I know they spike above retail. Yeah. But the $40 box spikes 120. Cool. Like, I don't like the fact that we get scalpers. You know, crazy. But the fact you can buy 100... What are you buying for 120 bucks in baseball? Basketball football. Yeah. As a thing. We can rip boxes and that and have a nice night. And I'm not like... Yeah, I don't even... At a point where I'm not sweating it, but like, I'm still like going... This is just dumb. You know what I mean? Oh, it's been $1,000 on one night, like, ripping three boxes. That's what I mean. It's like... Whether or you got it or not, it's like... I'm with you. Yeah, we get over and get weird with dynasty. I mean, if we get weird for an hour, it's not three... Like, we're 48,000 deep. Like, I don't care how much... Like, that's a lot of money. Like, I don't care a billionaires. It's a 48 grand and you got pictures of... I love cars, but like, that's what they are. So it's... I do like that aspect. Yeah. I think there's a lot of room for growth in the hobby. I'm excited to bring that to life. You know, having the boys involved and, you know, doing it organically. I just, you know, really appreciate you coming on, man. Dude, I'm... I really am. I'm super excited. We're trying to get content, guys. I did not think people in your... Like, your level with where you are with your career and stuff like that had any interest. So the fact that you are in on something like this, I think is great. I do. I really think that's what we needed. We need outside money. We also need outside people. Yeah. You just make good content. I don't care that you don't know every subset in prison or freaking optic. You have an interest. You have kids. You want to get in. And I'm like, this dude's an expert at what he does. I think that's what's going to separate this... from the other guys trying to make content. I'm excited, man. We'll have all the links and stuff. Cool. Anything else we want to plug? So you can set it down. Sports cards, nonsense everywhere. And collecting collectibles, SI.com, backslash collectibles. Nailed it. You got it. I got it. So, yeah. Brother, appreciate it. Hey, guys. Collectibles on SI, the first edition of Mini. Gonna have lots of content blended into this from the national. Your mangeo is on the floor. Tone it like you always does. It's hilarious. We're going to be showing more of that content. You got to see this guy in action. Really on the floor. He lives it, breathes it just like he talks it. And I'm telling you, it's going to be great. I appreciate you for coming on. I appreciate you for tuning in. The best is yet to come. You know what you came for? Those rad rips of the week. Let's get at it. Hey. Oh. Rad rips of the week. Two of our favorites. Select. And. Mosaic. I'm 20. 24 football. So let's go ahead and open these guys up. All right, what we got? Let's see. Each packet. So the mosaic. Got one, two, three, four, five, six packs. And the select. You've got six packs. Six and six. Those reactive blue parallels. You've got things like micro mosaics, which we've hit some of stained glass. That's a fun one. Both beautiful cards, by the way. Premium sets. We'll see how it goes. We'll start with mosaic. Breeze Hog. Good player. Jailer. Gold. Rookie. Finishing out with the notoriety. That two of you up to all the fame. So we'll go pack your pack here. 20-21. Select cards are nice. They're 20-24 working out later in the season. Oh, there's our boy. I think you can have a bounce back here this year, guys. They were worthy with my homes in Hampton. Not a bad start. All right. Mosaic. What we got? We got all kinds of lighting. That's what I'm saying. With these cards, Matt, the chain's head up. Yep. Jatavion Sanders. Ace of base. Terello. And Blake Corm on the Rookie. Another touchdown masters. So, so, so far. We're saving the fireworks here. Which one of these do you like better? Mosaic. Or select. Get some little shading and light here. It's going to make you feel like everything's got a refractor on it. Oh, there's Marvin Harris. Junior will take him. Little Rookie. Brian Thomas, Junior on the die cut. That's cool. Speed through this. See what we got here. There a car. Tired. Last card he'll have. Rookie Sanders. There's a pinnocks. On that horizontal. The lighting in here is throwing the making every one of these cards. Look. Amazing. And we're going to think everybody watching is going to be like, whoa. What's set of these? Quentin Johnson. Graham. Momma doesn't say. Who's this? Von Bell. Aiden Hutchinson. 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