Mike Baker's "Card Fact" Exposed: The Secret Data Big Graders WON'T Show You

I think the differentiator with what we're doing is we're adding greater notes or what we call a heat map. The transparency that you're having. Why hasn't that been done? And am I just crazy to think that should be the standard? My idea of what's on the card might be a little different than what you have. Bridging that all together, especially at a PSA level would be interesting. Welcome to the Trading Cards and Collectibles podcast on the Radcast Network. From Jason Grails to Colin Bluffs, I'm going inside the hobby. Are you ready to collect? Let's get at it. Here is your host, Ryan Alford. What's up guys? Welcome to Trading Cards and Collectibles here on the Radcast Network. Hey, I got friends in cool places in the hobby and I consider this guy a friend. I got to know him. He hadn't even known him long, but I just like him because I like disruptors and I like people that have momentum combined with credibility, combined with differentiation. And that's what we're going to talk about today. He is MBA. We'll tell you what that means. It's Mike Baker. What's up, Mike? How's it going? Thanks for having me, Ryan. Hey, man, it's going great. And I couldn't be better. We're in the new studio getting things set up. The next time I have you on, I'm going to force you to be a semi-regular or take a nice steak dinner here in G Vegas. But we're decorating the new studio, but I could talk to Mike Baker, the pioneer of grading. You could probably be that, right? Is it that kind of what you are? It's kind of crazy sometimes, especially going to the shows now. I'd see how everything's grown and everything's so tech and it's amazing. It's kind of cool. I look back at the last three, four years. It's hard to quantify that. It used to be the young guy walking around and seeing the old guys doing it. Now it's reversed. Mike Baker authenticated. That just sounds official, man. You've all grown up. You got the big name and you're the first employee and director of grading at PSA from 91 to 01. I got my numbers right. Yep. What got you into grading to begin with? I was working with the Coin Division PSA sister company PCGS and saw how much the graders were making in the Coin Department. And it was insane. Back in 1989, 1990, they were doing crazy money, but I saw that as an opportunity and saw where the money, let's follow the money basically. I love sports cards. I always have, you know, like the profile of playing with it when you were a kid and then you kind of forget about it when you're a teenager and go off to college and, you know, I reconnected with that because of the environment I was in. So it kind of, what's tiny is what it really got me into it. And then I kind of focused on trying to identify counterfeits and alterations and kind of made that kind of my lane or try to make it as important of my lane as possible. Back then, we didn't have a half point system tied to the grading system as it was, you know, kind of born. So there was a lot of evolution at the beginning and no one wanted it. So there was very little support from the dealers. It's like, who's this kid and then this company coming in and telling me, you know, what I should, you know, adhere to. And, you know, it was like the hobby's first kind of quasi-regulation. And to help, you know, intermediate the buyer and seller to ensure that the product was what you're supposed to get. So right place, right time-basic, that's really what got me into it. I think we need to, you know, pioneer is cool and all, but maybe Mike Baker, Godfather of grading. The adjectives, all of that, whatever. There's an old saying if you worry about who gets the credit, nothing ever gets done. So I'm just trying to get things done. I know. I like giving my guest pet names or something. I think I just came up with one. The OG Godfather of grading Mike Baker. All right, I might have to redo that intro for you, but what was that like? I mean, talk to me about PSA's end and now, like, I know you've been there in a while, but it's different. Like, talk to me. Yeah. Well, I mean, like in the early days, it was, it was, you know, it was a private company. So they're like the entrepreneurial spirit and the culture, especially coming from what had already been born in 1986 with the coin division. And the coin division kind of disrupted and changed the entire coin industry. And so it was just basically mirroring what I'd already experienced the past couple of years with the coins now transferring to cards. And I saw the potential, the, you know, the kind of the established growing order, but in coins, they had dealer support. And so it was, and everything was submitted through dealers. And so it was a big network that was already tied together and it kind of flip flopped for cards because we had to attack collectors. And, you know, attract and educate them about why it was important that what they were buying was signed off by, you know, a third party. And as collector interest grew and more education, awareness gap, narrowed, that's when the dealer started coming on board. So there was a number of years where I would go to shows and talk to very little people. You'd have to kind of like force yourself on people to kind of, you know, let them know what you were doing and how you were doing it. And everyone considers, you know, their cards, their babies. So a part of a big part of it was establishing trust that we were, I was in particular a good babysitter and a good steward of, you know, managing your, your cards and whatnot. So because a lot of, a lot of the things in the early days were, if I send the card through the mail, how, how do I know I'm going to get the same card back? And how do I know it's not going to get damaged? How do I know it's not going to get switched? And all these fears and understandable, actually, because it was brand new and disruptive. So, but you keep going to shows, you keep telling story, you keep shaking hands, kissing babies, sometimes you get lucky and you break through. And that's what inevitably happened. And to see PSA now, it's insane. I mean, I was, I thought we were doing crazy numbers when we were doing 10, 15,000 cards in the early 90s a month. And now to see, you know, PSA doing over a million and a half cards a month on average is just mind boggling. It's crazy, the volume. I mean, I watch that, you know, seeing the, is it Jim Raid or whatever that keeps track of like different thing? I'm sure PSA does too or not releases it, but then the volume of cards getting graded every month, it's just insane. And it's, it's fascinating thinking about you being there and watching it and then, you know, how our perspective kind of changes when, you know, you're there and you're like, wow, this pike, can we get any bigger? And then now, you know, doing your own thing, but watching the whole thing unfold, what's the good and bad in the ugly of it all, though? Well, the good is that, you know, having been the first to establish a lot of the protocols and kind of the heartbeat of the grading room there, a lot of the guys that I hand picked and trainer still there, still leading it. So like, kind of my, the business DNA, so to speak, is still, my, the legacy is still there. So I feel like I'm still a big part of what they've been able to do because of the foundation that was built originally and to see a lot of the guys in the leadership, senior leadership that are still there, you know, guiding the ship. And they've been, I imagine a million and a half cards a month and average is no joke. You know, that's another level of craziness. So if there's a bad part, I would say it's just, you know, ensuring that you try to adhere to all the consistency, whatever size you are, you know, making sure that you're providing transparency, you know, you're providing decent turn times. And it's challenging when you're doing that kind of volume and trying to keep up the Kansas disease. And everyone has a platform now, you know, years ago, there wasn't, you know, radio podcast everywhere and, you know, all these, you know, platforms to kind of judge what you're doing on an hourly or daily basis, you know. So, you know, everyone's holding their feet to the fire in a big way. And so there's a lot of, a lot of pressure to, you know, steam your land, do the right thing and hopefully it all works out for the best. Yeah, that's the truth. And I mean, when the volume goes up, like you mentioned keeping that standard and everybody adhering to it, it's, it's hard to, that's a hard thing to do. I mean, is it, when you look at what they've done, I mean, do you feel like they're generally keeping up with it? Yes, I think they're, they're, they're innovation and Napstone a great job, the greeting staffs and a great job that their support, I mean, doing that on a consistent basis and still having the markets here that they have is impressive. So it has, it's tensile strength, you know, so it had a good foundational blocks and they've kept, you know, scaling that and I have nothing but good praise for my former company. So let's turn the page. What made you start, I mean, obviously it was a natural path for you. Maybe it was always the path, but with MBA and Mike Baker authenticated. In 2020, I think that's when you started, was that always the, the path in your mind when you, you know, hit it out there, did you think you were going to start your own thing? Yeah, well, no, to be honest, you know, the, the project kind of was born in the early 2000s and thought, Hey, well, why don't we do like a Mike Baker line? It got shelved, it got kind of re taken off the shelf so it's being in the late late teens. I thought we were actually going to start in 19. We had some delays and then we started in August of 2020 and then COVID hit. And it was like, Oh my gosh, you know, like you, you can't go to card shows. If it wasn't for the Dallas card show, you know, a lot of the industry would have been in probably a different space because that place was like a mini national every three months or whatever to, you know, have everyone get together and trade and it was bustling and, you know, we call it the COVID time or whatever because the market was super hot at that point too. So we had a little bit of a pop at that point, but being able to kind of continue the momentum and still going to more shows and trying to, you know, tell everybody that this is what we're doing is we're providing because everyone already had their card graded. So like, what, why do you need to go and send it off or get a sticker on it to, you know, blah, blah, blah. And time after time, you get this and sure enough, you would try to articulate why just certain cards are better than their counterparts in the same grade. It's just how it is, you know, and those cards even raw over the years have always sold a little bit better than their counterpart. So what we've done is basically platform those special cards and bring attention to them and celebrate them. And with that, the premiums have grown and everyone now after five years is getting to the point where when you get a silver or gold or a black, you know what you're getting and it's a special card. And that's why people are willing to step up a little bit more than their non-sticker product. Mike, what he does, and he just said it. So you've got, if you have a car PSA graded, is it just PSA that you do when you're doing any? We do an S.G.C. Beckett, C.G.C. and we just started with Tag as well. Yeah. So any any grade card that's worth that the brand is reputable, it sounds like. Yeah. Mike will add a layer on top of that with his sort of tiered certification stickers, gold, silver, and black, because not all H are the same, not all 9s are the same, not all 10s, et cetera. Am I phrasing that right, Mike? Exactly. And so because and then it adds a tiered because they're not all equal. And it also so it adds a differentiation between those numbers and adds a higher value potentially because or most certainly should because it's if it's specific, it's in that diamond black gold diamond. I mean, it can't it's all the all the high end stuff in one word, one parallel or whatever you want to call it, but black gold diamond. So basically with PSA in particular because it doesn't have a 9.5 and it doesn't have a pristine or black label. So really and they're obviously the the market share leader. So we see it in in order of PSA cars relative to their other grading services. But you know, between the 9.0 and 9.9 there's absolutely some separation. The differentiator, a silver represents a silver or a superior i pill within the grade. So it's just a better looking card than it's normal average nine. And then for 9.5 or higher it would be a gold. And you know, there's absolutely 9.5 with plus cards within a PSA 9. And then for the tens, you can get a gold, which would be a pristine. And then a black, which is just a flawless card. You know, those those blacks still come around very often. It's definitely less than 1%. Golds have been doing very well. Everyone wants gold. And I think the silver label was misunderstood at the beginning. And now it's grabbed some more operational awareness in terms of, you know, what it this really means. And it absolutely is a better looking card. It's a pure i pill characteristics of that card in comparison to their counterparts. So it's all those things have been moving really well, especially since I met you at the national. You know, we kind of celebrated our five years roughly right about that time. And for whatever reason, it was it was go time. And you know, NBA definitely moved some move the monitor a little bit with that needle. Yeah. Hey, it's just me meeting me, buddy. You know, me talking about it. I'm kidding. Absolutely. Definitely helped. I like to take credit. I don't even earn. The uh, no, but you you've earned it. And that's what's great. You're doing things the right way. And so Mike, I know you're doing full now grading. How would you compare your grading versus the other guys out there and just talk a little bit about that product? Well, we started. We launched the product at the beginning of the year. Immediately, uh, there's been some great platforms. The Greg Morris cards on eBay. Brian Drent from Milhaut cards have been like the first kind of day one supporters of that product. Recently, just recently, um, Heritage opened up. We have product on Heritage and their current auction at TCG entertainment, not sports going right now. We're talking with Golden tomorrow to get the product, you know, on on board it there as well. So in nine months, we were also listed on VCP, finished card pricer and card ladder. So in the last nine, ten months, we've really moved the needle on that category. I think the differentiator with what we're doing is we're adding greater notes or what we call a heat map. So when a card gets graded, I highlight the areas of concern. You get you get the card back. You can go look at the report card basically and it'll be highlighted up or right. You can put the little magnifying lens over that area and kind of identify what kind of kept the card from going into a higher grade. We're also gated right now by by dealers basically. We have a couple of dealers. Greg Morris soon will be on board to take submissions from the public. We're doing, you know, more business to business is where we're sitting currently. Ideally, we'll get to a point where we scale and we'll be open to the public that will happen in the future. But right now, we're trying to do it right not take on more than we can chew and we can walk and chew bubble gum at the same type type thing. But we don't want to, you know, I don't want to be an internet meme about seeing we can, you know, bring it on and we get bussing at the seams or whatever and we become part of the problem. You know, so slow and steady is kind of the role right now. Here's what I love. This was my biggest, you know, coming back into it into the hobby and getting, you know, into the business. And it's not different than what I was younger, but it's just I'm more aware now and keen. The, you know, PSA and I look at it, I like that. I like to be out of no problem with PSA. I love PSA. But the fact that you don't know why you got a certain grade never made sense to me. And that's what I love about what you do. Like you said, doing the whole heat map, you, you get to understand you get educated on what the flaws were, what, what drove the grading. If you don't become the market leader in the next 10 years, I'll be surprised. I mean, I'm just saying, I know that sounds probably impossible to you. But what you're doing though, the transparency that you're having. Why hasn't that been done? And am I just crazy to think that should be the standard? Well, it's costs and efficiency, you know, I mean, have you, you want to have, you want to make sure that the consistency in terms of what's being called out is, is my idea of what's on the card might be a little different than what you have. So kind of bringing bridging that all together, especially at a PSA level would be interesting. I mean, it can be done. They do offer it for a fee. I understand why you have to charge for that because it slows the process down and at that level that it's a machine and anything that goes into that process is going to add time. I'm doing it in part of kind of the ethos of why we did it was to ensure it the transparency because it's appreciated. Number one, to it'll save more time with customer service answering those questions. I would rather have it beyond doing more business than talking about business has already been done. So if we can narrow that gap, make you more educated about how things are graded, what's going on? That's going to make you more educated buyer and spend more money, probably do a little bit more business with us in the day. So that's that's kind of the thought. Card facts. Yeah, card facts. Yeah. Card facts report. Transparency and I had a color blast Caleb Williams that Mike was so gracious to let me experience that process. We'll have those screens up. We'll have images on the site showing you what that card facts looks like. I did get a silver diamond 9.5. So I knew it had a little bit of softness on one of the corners. So Mike did me right because he was he does what he does. He's legitimate. He's fair. But it was it was a great experience. I just loved being able to see, you know, like the on screen, the serial number just felt very professional. Yeah. What's tied to that, too, is the population report, too. So once you enter your certain number, you scroll down a little bit and you can see the pop data for that, too, mobile or or PC or whatever. But yeah, the silver, the silver diamond, the superior iPill sticker on that card. So your card was meant plus 9.5 had a little touch, but yet every other attribute of the card was nails. So if it wasn't for that little touch, you're talking 10 or better, basically. So with that silver diamond represents on our product, is that that is absolutely has superior iPill characteristics when they're not great for that 9.5. Yeah. And it may or may not be for sale soon. So I don't know. I might keep it just for Nemo's sake. What's happening now, man? I mean, I heard you snuck it in there a little bit, golden, meat with golden, but like, where are we headed with everything? I think right now we're doing kind of admin 2.0 to get ready for scaling. Actually, we've been working on that for a little bit. Tightening up our systems, everything gets image front and back, both for the diamond third party cards that get a sticker and for every card that comes in, it's shot raw, it's shot post, it gets it's shot with these stickers. So every there's a big provenance of cards. One of the things we're kind of doing uniquely too is any crossover that comes, we're taking the images the front and back of that third party grade service and tying it to the certain number. So let's say that card that you had came from a previous third party service, it would show that image once you did the search check online. So there'll be a nice provenance or legacy attachment so that you can see that, hey, I had it in a PSA SGC holder. I wanted to the heat map, I wanted the NBA experience, whatever it may be, you can see what you had it in before cracked out in the NBA holder. So it's some nice and package. So I think that's kind of another differentiator first to market type deal too. That's cool. Let me make sure I understand that, our listeners understand that. So yeah, if I send you, I'm just going to stick with the PSA line since the leader, I send you a PSA 8 card and I want my Bakers and his team to grade it. You're going to show, okay, you take pictures so that when I go to my card facts, I see that exactly as it was sent to you PSA slab and then wherever you end up grading it, you see the after and in your case. That's correct. Okay. You'll have to go up for down, right? I think it's kind of the best of both worlds too. It gives us, how are they grading all these great cards and whatever the thought process is on the internet and whatnot. We're trying to, hey, go do a certain look up and you'll be able to see that card went to this previous holder. So, you know, trying to, you know, obviously that's not for every card. It's for crossovers and whatnot, but figured when we can do it, we will do it to add that another layer of transparency to what we're doing, how we're doing it. Well, that's pretty cool because then you can say, you know, my card graded, okay, this card is an 8 PSA, an 8.5, my Baker, whatever, or you could, you kind of, like you said, that provenance of having multiple grades and levels, I mean, multiple standards. Yeah, it's, it's tying it to what we do with the diamond certification currently because if you submit a PSA card and it's a nine and I gold it, it's, we're saying it's 9.5, you know, and if it's a 10 and I gold it, we're saying it's pristine. So that gives you the, the awareness that if that card were to come in the, you know, it's not guaranteed, obviously, until it goes through the, it's, it's process going into that level, but it's a likelihood that that card will transfer into that, that next grade. So it's kind of the building blocks, not today, not tomorrow, but as our awareness gap narrows, more people will understand that when you have a PSA 10, you know, whatever, and it's got a gold on it, that has an opportunity to go pristine MBA. Yeah, that's cool. Talk with Mike Baker. He is the Godfather of grading. Because I call him that, he's not calling himself that, but I'm going to call him that. You can't name yourself, that's for sure. No, but I like, I know, you're not that old either. You're probably like, I'm not old enough to be a Godfather, but yeah, you are, you know, you have to glasses, you know, you can rock it. What cards are we grading, man? I want to be specific for everybody listening is you guys flip on more of the, you know, you know, retail or send in stuff where it gets more access to start growing, doing new old all sports Pokemon. What are we grading? What we're doing at all, actually, um, granted having being gated right now, it's more selective in terms of kind of what we get who we're dealing with and the type of client cell those guys are dealing with. Yep. So, but we just got a number of Pokemon cards in. I went to my first magic con in Atlanta a few weeks ago. Um, that's another thing our show schedule since the national has been a full core press. Um, I'm literally going anywhere and everywhere. We're going to be onsite grading in Toronto in two weeks. So that'll be our first foray onsite. It'll be interesting, fingers crossed, nothing breaks. But yeah, it's, but to your point about cars, primarily right now, it's been vintage. Um, and I say vintage, I'm talking like 50s and 60s type thing, but you know, vintage technically is 80s now and 70s. So you get a lot of that. But yeah, I know that's for your like, vintage. What are you talking about? But that seems to be our mainstay. And um, our sales data actually from a VCP has been pretty impressive. We're, we're running, you know, neck and neck a little bit better than SGC in a lot of areas and a little under I'd say we're SGC plus in certain areas and PSA light. But being at the time that we've been on the market less than a year has been pretty impressive to see those numbers and the support. And I think there's just a kind of a, a little bit of a ground swell with the network and the outreach that we've done. Uh, where people are kind of pulling for us, you know, I, uh, I saw an episode on sports car dad with Justin and Rick Probstein yesterday. And he said in the deal that people are pulling for him, you know, so I reached out to him and said I'm pulling for you too. And I kind of feel that same way. There's a lot of, you know, street kind of cred of people that are like wanting to see something different and the, and the pie is so big now that even if we got, you know, 10, 15,000 cards a month, it's not going to put a dent in anyone else's submission run. So, you know, I think that that's, and there's a lot of opportunity with that. And I'm, I'm confident with the experience that we have with, you know, my partners and team that, uh, our innovations are going to definitely change and be disruptive in the coming coming weeks and months. I know you're fond of PSI. There's nothing. No one's trying to get dirt thrown around here. But like, yeah, it does bring up the competition thing with, okay, SGC, you know, like, yeah, everyone said this was going to, everybody goes, well, they're going to buy SGC and they're going to, you're going to watch them fall fast and sorry. That's what's happened. So like, uh, they bought their, you know, closest competitor, I guess, I don't know. I mean, you could argue that. And then they've just sort of eaten them and then the numbers are getting eaten as well. So, I mean, what's your thoughts on that? Well, you know, like you said, you follow the gem rate numbers. I mean, the data, you just follow the data, you know, I mean, ultimately, there's a lot of water cooler talk about what's going to happen. And a lot of people have been invested in SGC for, you know, for decades. And those guys are great, know them well. I think they do a great job. I can see why PSA bought them definitely for their vintage expertise for sure. But I think that, uh, when the market starts to determine its own perception of things, sometimes that perception can be the reality or start to be become a, that part of reality. And, uh, you know, Peter's stepping down prior to the national. I know, added a log to that fire, you know, and so on and so forth. I don't know what the plans are. I know I've heard the same rumors that I've sure everybody else has heard, but, you know, ultimately, whatever happens is going to happen. And I can just tell you from an MBA perspective, we're, we're there to, you know, pick up whatever slack is, you know, we're off for another option to customers and whatnot. So that's, that's kind of our focus. So yeah, my, I mean, I'm sad for the kind of SGC crowd, but I'm happy for the opportunity that it opens up for my friend, Mike Baker, because I do think it is opportunity for you even more. I mean, not that there's not plenty to go around. Like we don't have to be. There's a lot. Collaboration is, we'd go a long way in this industry, you know, and there's enough to go around. And nobody's taken PSA's lunch tomorrow. And they're a great company. Yeah. But at the same time, hey, opportunity knocks sometimes. Well, an opportunity knocks also with for graders as well, because as we scale, the best of the best, I will be personally targeting. You know, I want to make a good grader. Like I'd be watching that. Tell me what makes a good grader. You know, patience and temperance, you know, not thinking that you know everything, because there's always somebody out there that knows probably a little bit more than you. I've been on podcasts in the past where people have asked my experience in certain areas. And I'm like, hey, I rely on some of great collaborate collaborators, partners, consultants that helped me, you know, with making sure I'm staying at the forefront of what's going on. And I welcome that. So, you know, you got to love your job too, because it's monotonous. You know, I'll bring, you know, I've worked with people in the past and say, hey, you know, sit down here and look at a thousand cards in an eight hour day and see if you can push. You know, and so most people, their eyes are getting tired, the fatigue, you know, it's mental fatigue too, because you're not everything's a 10. So that was easy. You can just be a button for sure. And, you know, who cares? But when you're running the gamut from vintage to, you know, to a to modern shiny cards, all that stuff and trying to adhere to a standard and, you know, the calculations are big, you know, which is why I see how AI can definitely be a thing coming in the not-judicial future. I know for some, it's already here. I haven't seen anything yet that can pick off alterations and, you know, it be consistent. And ultimately, AI is top by humans. So as good as the AI is, it has to come from the human component to make that AI what it is. And in terms of its, you know, base, you know, foundation. So would you be willing to do an episode with us and grade a card on, like, live, like with a camera? Yeah. I think we should do that on the next get together, like, have the camera and then everybody watch the process. I think that was fascinating. And you kind of talk through like what you're doing, what you're seeing. Back in, I think 2000 ESPN came in with Lisa Salters and the Tiger Woods card was a big thing at that time. And the ESPN crew came in at PSA. They did the whole spiel and it went to the actual national. I think it was in Cleveland where the card ended up selling with the father and son the whole bit. It was pretty cool. But they documented the whole thing. I think it would be absolutely be open to that. Show you some of the new tech things that we use and how it's integrated into our software. And, you know, it's a, it's a good deal. I'll send you that Honus Wagner. I have in the safe that no way knows. Yeah. I love it. I want to see it. I printed it in my backyard. I'm kidding. We'll let you choose what you feel like would be a good fodder for that. We'll do that next time. These are fascinating. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So what shows are coming up? Mike, anything else like of note that people should be aware of where you'll be? Yeah, basically our Instagram channel at NBA Diamonds has the show schedule that we're pretty active. Socially with that going to Miami to do a private collection next week for four days. I'm headed to Toronto on site. November 6th through the 9th. They're after going to Chicago sports spectacular in November, closing out with San Antonio, collecticon and the Philadelphia show in December. And then from there, it's it's go time. I'm booked. We're booked 13 shows for the first half of the year. So it's it's it's aggressive. But right now the momentum's there. And we need to seize it. And I want to narrow that awareness gap as much as possible to tell people what we're doing and how we're doing it. Hey, and somewhere in there, stop through old G Vegas and there we go. And coming into this territory. Real South Carolina. Yeah, exactly. Love it. Chicago, the leg, G Vegas. We're good of all. And Mike, give me the website details, social media, any of the handles, things like that. Yeah, websites, www.mba diamond.com and Instagram is at NBA Diamonds, plural on Instagram. So very active on Instagram. We have banners. We have specials. We do a lot of promos. Our digital review services, you know, really popular. You can submit a previously graded card. It can help determine whether or not it's worth sending in. If it is this NBA candidate, if it doesn't get it, it'll I'll tell you greater notes. Why top to bottom centering left to right, upper left corner tip, whatever it may be, that that money that you spend to get that result, then credits to your account. So when you do get a sticker, that money will go to the sticker. So it's kind of a no brainer to give it a shot. It's easy to use. It's 10 bucks in the low tier to get the information you need. It's it's really popular. I mean, we started at last November and since the national in particular, it's probably grown 10 fold. That's awesome. Man, that's a great service to have. And just to not waste time, you know, at least as close as you can with not knowing where what you're holding without having to send it in or do anything. Yeah, especially as valuable as cards are now and the kind of friction that, you know, everyone has wanted us or having to send it off and then having to get a no. So really, it helps that to kind of filter out what what not to send. Yeah, no brainer. Good for you. Good for them. Yeah. Love it, man. Really love what you're doing and I've been rooting for you. So I'm going to keep rooting for you. I appreciate that. That's one thing great about the industry and hobby. There's there's some great people out there. Yeah. Well, you're one of them. I appreciate your brother for coming on. I appreciate it, Ryan. Hey guys, you don't find us collectibles.show will have links to Mike's site, their social media and everything they're doing and we'll have images up from the experience I had with my card, which was first class just like MBA. We appreciate you. You can find me at Ryan offered on all the social media platforms. Drop me a line. Tell me what you're enjoying. What you want to hear? Who you want to see other than Mike Baker and we'll make it happen. We'll see you next time. I'm trading cards and collectibles.show is where you'll find all of the channels and learn more about what we're doing and ultimately, hey, we want to hear from you. You do case hits at collectibles.show. What you to send in your favorite pulls of the week. And here's the difference. This isn't about just value. Hey, we want to see some $10,000 hits. Had a couple of those myself a few months back. But it's not just about the values about what you're collecting. What means something to you? Share a story. Share a video of you holding up the card that you hit last week. That was your favorite player and you nailed it. So case hits at collectibles.show. Send in those videos. I want to know the stories. We're going to bring it to life here on the show. We're going to do a segment each week once we get rolling and get some videos in where we share that on the show with us. We'll feature you on collectibles.show.