Is Your PSA 10 Really a 10? | Mike Baker Authentication

If you give a card an eight, it's probably PSA eight, nine, 10. I mean, you feel like there's a lot of correlation. I like to believe that, yes, but there has been a serious consideration to how PSA in particular is graded over the last 18 to 24 months. All I can tell you is, is that we grade what we see. My perfect Josh Allen explosive was only worthy of a 9.5 from NBA. People say we're strict. I like to say that we're fair and we can explain, you know, the lines are just different. There's different standards, different interpretations. As we all know, NBA puts the stickers on the diamond because not all PSA numbers are created equal. Welcome to the Collector Nation podcast here on the Collector Nation Network. Whether you're chasing grails or calling bluffs, we take you inside the hobby. Here's your host, Ryan Alford. What's up, guys? Welcome to Collector Nation here on our NBA edition. We do these almost monthly. I like saying, are you down with NBA? You know me. It is Mike Baker. What's up, Mike? How's it going, Ryan? Good to be here again. You never know when a new tune's coming out for Mike Baker, the world's greatest, most professional, coolest player. authenticated grader. His name is Mike Baker. World's greatest grader joining us this time. Mike, where are we? We home? Are we catching our breath for the national or what else is going on? No, I just got back from the Northeast Sports Expo in Boston or Marlboro, Massachusetts. Prior to that, we actually did the first time we went out a day early. We went to New Hampshire. We went to a company's, a business called Collectible Tags. They're in Manchester, New Hampshire. Really cool office. They promoted it. They're big in Pokemon TCG. And we showed up there for, I think, roughly 6 hours and had a great day. I met a lot of great people. And actually, we were busy. So they did a great job on their end to get people there to submit cards to us. And we were able to provide same-day service. For kind of an introductory level, we were doing 25 same day. It was kind of a test. Wow. Kind of see how the NBA day at a card shop kind of unfold as opposed to the experience at a card show. And what we found, got some good data out of that and looking to kind of... We'll definitely do that again with them at the next round when we're out that way. And looking to hook up with shops like... you know, your shop and, and others across the nation. I was like, Hey dude, I know somebody that can, uh, yeah. Well, your, your shop was the first one we went to like do the grand opening. And so, and then this shop was the first one we'd actually provided the services. So the next time around, so now we've kind of burned in some systems and figured out something that really works to, you know, get people there and create that kind of draw. So how many, how many, cards do we want like if you if we did we did something like that or no matter where you go i mean obviously i'm thinking through a selfish lens like normal mike you know i am but uh i try to get all of mike baker's time uh the uh but in all seriousness i mean how many are we looking to get done like a four or six hour like how many you know would you want is ideal to sort of make it worth your time worth the shop's time all that stuff Um, we got a little over 30 orders, um, at the shop last time compromising maybe 200 plus cards. So it was perfect. Good, good cadence. You know, we weren't rushing. We weren't slow. Yeah. So, I mean, a few, you know, I'd say up to 500 cards would probably be for like a six hour kind of deal would, would be well worth it for everybody. Oh, wow. Okay. That's, that's doable. Yeah. Yeah. Okay then. All right. We're going to sign that one up. Yeah. We need to get you on the counter, man. And we'll do a minimum order. I'll put my own cards in there to meet the total if we have to. Yeah. No, I mean, it was, it was a good like a foundation to kind of set, to figure out what, you know, and I'm sure there'll definitely be more data and more learning points, you know, as we, you know, do more to make it a better experience and, you know, you know, create, create ways to, to make the whole thing interactive and whatnot. We've got some cool ideas, you know, win, win, it's such a win, win, because I mean, especially in the climate now, I mean, cause I'm assuming everybody got their cards back that day, right? I mean, yes. No one left. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, drop them off. I mean, we could probably get, I know a good marketing guy. We could probably get people here from surrounding counties because of, I mean, again, not, you know, back to PSA's plight with all the, all the business they have to do, but not yet, you know, but being behind that certainly helps that type of event too. Right. I mean, I mean, it's not that you're trying to feed off of that, but it just is reality of the business. Yeah. You know, PSA providing, you know, rock hard grading or us, that's all going to be done back at the office. So we have this, you know, kind of this little niche area of, of putting a lot of the stuff can be done or all of it can be done in house. The cool thing was we tied it to a show that was within an hour's distance. So if there was any overlap with us not being able to, you know, to complete, we could have said, Hey, come, come, come by the show and pick up your order. Then, you know, so these were slabs getting stickered, getting diamonds. Okay. That's a good, that's a good, which is a very valuable service by the way, because, uh, Baker does, as we all know, NBA puts the stickers on the diamond because not all PSA numbers are created equal. Everyone knows it. And this is how you differentiate and know what you really hold. That makes sense, but it does. I was hoping for the raw, though, to be honest, Mike, but I can understand why that might be more than you could do. So here's the add-on to it, though. We do offer pre-grading at shows, and we offer pre-grading at the shop as well. So we were able to grade the cards, and the customer could identify what they were working with to then decide whether or not they want to give it to us, take back, and then encapsulate and finish the process. What about authentication? Could you provide that service? Authentication of just cards? Yeah. We don't do authentication of autographs. No, we don't do authentication of autographs. We don't do authentication of packs. So all we're going to provide really is the authentication for a rock hard, a rock hard sports, TCG, non-sport, that kind of thing. But that's pretty valuable because there's a lot of stuff that's vintage where at the very least, just to know that it's real in a trade. Well, I mean, right now you could submit a card to any of the services and everyone's so backed up. At least you get a real time. You get a sense of what you have to then make a decision about what you want to do. Yeah. Yeah. Technically, it doesn't have to go into an NBA holder. I mean, that's our preference. But if you got a pregrade and it was an eight, let's say, and you're like, oh, this card in an eight at PSA is going to be worth X. Let's see if I get an eight from them. And then you can make a business decision whether or not the juice is worth the squeeze. Exactly. I mean, I hate to say it, Mike, but, you know, as you build the brand that I know you will, and I'm going to help like I do, I'm going to keep helping because I know how great of a job you do. I mean, the world's greatest grader has to have the world's greatest grading company. So the... But no, you are, man. And so, but the amount of business, like, just adjacent to the players, and I love that you're finding these niches where you're adding value to the community, adding value to things, and it's adjacent to, okay, fine. PSA's the lead dog, fine. How can I add value to what they're doing in and around it? It's brilliant, and it helps. Yeah, that's exactly the – that's been our core. And now pivoting from the core and then introducing – we've had the MBA graded product online since January of 25, incrementally going to all these shows and – introducing that product, showing what it looks like, they can hold it, knowing that we are a viable option. We're in heritage, we're in major auctions, whatnot. So we're listed on VCP card ladder. So a lot of the boxes check for a service, technically, that would have taken a lot longer to get those kind of credentials. And we were able to get those in under 18 months. That's a feather in the cap. Yeah, man, it is. Talking with Mike Baker. Mike Baker, authenticated. I want to get into, we don't have time. Everybody's busy. We're right around the holidays, so we're not going to do a full official 301 add-on. We'll do 301 next month, but it'll just be like 2.5 on a couple of things. Before we get to that, Mike, let's preview, because I don't know if we'll have you on again, before the National. Am I saying that right? This is probably the last time we have Mike before the National, most likely. I think that's probably the way the dates work and it's coming up quite quick. So, Mike, maybe preview the national NBA. I know we've talked about it before, but let's set the table for everyone of what you guys are going to be doing there. We're going to be doing what we have. We're going to be at a corporate booth. We've got a 20 by 20 space. We've designed it to make it look like a museum. So it'll be a big square. All the there'll be, I think, six or seven display cases showing our different products and services, highlighting our new products. We I think I mentioned the last time I was on, we have a. a T3 holder, which will hold a T3 and five by seven star Jordan type cards, all kinds of little knickknacks that'll fit within the confines of that size. We have the tall boy holder, which, you know, it's a big deal. Get into tickets and, you know, the tall boy card sizes. We have a foil pack. So we'll be doing Pokemon packs and those types of packs coming online soon. So all that will be, you know, shown there. this is the first time that we'll actually be doing all the processing in a private area at the national. They set us up with a big office, big kind of conference area within the national space. So we'll have runners that are taking the submissions at our booth, and then the process will be done, you know, kind of in that area. So a lot of the, you know, shaking hands and kissing babies type thing will happen at the booth and it won't be interrupted by processes and, you know, craziness and whatnot. So kind of seeing that'll be fun to see how that kind of works out. And then, you know, myself and my right hand, Nick Dolezal, will be coming in Saturday prior to the national. And we're actually we have appointments Sunday and Monday. taking cards and getting them processed to kind of, you know, release the pressure valve off of kind of the onslaught that we're expecting based on the emails and calls and customer interactions we've had with the amount of volume that we'll be getting. So it was kind of prudent to think about going out there a little earlier, you know, maybe taking some of those. And a lot of these guys too, if they can, you know, figure out a way to get their stuff done without the crowd, You know, it's advantageous for everybody. Are you doing raw grading at the show? Yeah, we'll be doing raw card grading at the show. Again, we're not doing encapsulation. Originally, we were talking about doing that and then looking at the landscape and what the core business has been right now, which is the sticker business. It's on the tracks. Yeah. We'd be doing 10% of everything, 100% of nothing if we try to do everything. So we made a business decision to pull back on the actual on-site encapsulation and just stick with on-site card grading. And then, again, people can see what they have and they can make a business choice as whether or not they want to give it to us, take back, and or maybe even submit it to another grading service that is providing on-site there. whatever you want to do smart smart mike you don't have to you know you don't have to slay the giant you can just know you know you can have lunch with them you know like that's be a service to all look it's a tremendous service to have uh their lead and the world's greatest grader and his team looking at it before it goes to where he uh ran the department for quite a bit and uh made it what they are today um the uh I mean, what a service, Mike. So good. Yes. I will say in my younger days, I was very competitive and still am competitive, but more understanding of that. I was, you know, want everything to be PSA this and PSA that. Now it's like the landscape almost dictates kind of a food court experience where you can go to a place and decide, hey, what do you feel like today? Or, you know, what makes the most sense? Have you done any comparison, Mike? I mean, I know you guys are adding the stickers to things that are higher than a nine, no in-between grades, which you kind of become the in-between grade for PSA in a lot of ways. Have you done the comparison of... you know, just random, like eight. You graded all these cards eight, and how many became PSA eights and tens, nine, tens? Do you have any kind of like rough percentages of those things? No, not on cards that, you know... I know a lot of people have been very successful. You know, the card speaks for the card. I mean, you know, great cards have always sold for a little bit more than their counterparts, same grade. It's just we're databasing it and we're actually grading it. Our service is a crossover service. You know, when we put a card, we put a sticker on a card. It absolutely means that is the pathway to what NBA standards would agree to do as well. So we're just, you know, I mean, we talk all the time about what's happened over the last 35 years. And the amount, I just had a conversation at the show, you know, there's over 200 million units of plastic out there over a 35-year period. You know, 15 years of that, 14 years of that was without the half grade at PSA. And you've had all the gyrations of up and down over that time period. You know, I think there's even, you know, there has been serious consideration to how PSA in particular is graded over the last 18 to 24 months and how the new cert means that something different than what the old certs mean. So there's all this, and the market kind of dictates what that means or what it means. what it doesn't mean. But all I can tell you is that we grade what we see. And if the card is there, we're going to put a sticker on it. And we hope someday that card will get cracked out and come into an NBA home. Yep. Do you feel pretty good about if you give a card an eight, it's probably PSA eight, nine, ten. I mean, you feel like there's a lot of correlation. I like to believe that. Yes. But ultimately, we're all we're all our own company. And PSA is going to conduct themselves the way they do. I know that, you know, being more boutique like we are, it's easier to manage what we have as opposed to two million cards a month. We don't have a 24, you know, we're not working 24 hours a day. I think, you know, people say, you know, we're strict. I like to say that we're fair and we can explain, you know, I think the market, the market, the grading standard over 35 years, you know, people are going to hold, you know, what happened in 2010 or 2000 or 1995, you know, the lines are just different. There's different standards, different interpretations of that standard, you know, You know, doing 2 million cars a month or that kind of volume, you know, maybe you're not able to grab the most experienced guy. So that most that less experienced guy is more conservative. So that could be construed as being strict. So I don't know. I guess eyes on the beholder to how much business you're doing with all the services and what you're what you gravitate towards, you know, towards that info. in front of you, and this is why you need to be watching, my perfect Josh Allen that got a 9.5 from NBA. You hear all the good things I say about Mike. I just want to prove that clearly I'm not paid to say so because my perfect Josh Allen explosive was only worthy of a 9.5 from NBA. The point being not to bust Mike's balls and more to prove that you can't buy him off. And he's there was a tiny flaw that was, you know, I'd hate him to grade my my seven year old, you know, when he was in grade school because, man, he would have flunked him. But no hard feelings, Mike. But I just want to put this here for our crowd to see how objective you are. Well, I will say every card starts at a black diamond and it works its way down. You know, so if it can stay as high as it can. I wanted to, you know, for sure. This is proof of integrity, Mike, is all I'm saying. As sad as it makes me, because I know how perfect Josh is and this card is to me. The reality was it didn't make the cut, but it is a beautiful card and a beautiful encasing with the gold. And the heat map makes me cry, but let's not go there. I was just going to say that it's the heat map that, you know, because you and I can look at the area where the heat maps highlighted. I did. That's why it made me cry, because it made me realize you were just being honest. Well, you know, I mean, the transparency with the heat map and then the open dialogue, it's kind of hard to get away from what you and I can both agree that's there. Now, to what degree it's there is probably more of the debate. Yeah, maybe. But I'd rather you be objective to prove that all the good things I say are because they're real. I'm not because. It is what it is. Real quick, I do want to give people, you mentioned PAX. I know you've got like two minutes. We do have a couple packs. Let's do a really quick, how do we grade a pack? I've got a Pokemon pack here. How does a pack get graded versus a card? Maybe we'll close out with a little info on that. Yeah, I will say this. The pack standards, especially for foils and whatnot, we haven't fully mapped yet. So to kind of put the cart in front of the horse, so to speak, on this, I probably defer to a later date where I could actually be more definitive. Yeah. But you're going to say maybe just how you're thinking about setting the standards for how you'll grade them. Loosely, it's going to be how the artwork sits. I mean, clearly, we're not grading what the cards look like. They're encased inside a full pack. So that's out. So really, it's just – is the pack damage? Does it have tears? Are they crimped? Does it look like some of the artwork has been stained or muddied and it's transferred from manufacturer to box to case? And how did it all kind of go back and forth with that? So how much does this matter? Does centering matter? Like I'm noticing immediately that a lot of space over here and not very much over here. Yes. Essentially, we're talking about artwork like that of a comic book. Yeah. A ticket, like a flat item where it's not something that you can see definitively. How much does a corner hit on the upper right of the pack? Do people want a perfect pack? And I think that's where some of the packs are folded when they get, you know, boxed up. So it's like it's part of how the manufacturer did it. So a lot of those nuances we're kind of debating right now, actually. So probably by the national, we'll have more of a framework of what the standard will kind of like look like. But loosely, I can say, yes, the centering will matter in the overall evaluation of the grade. Okay, cool. So a few little things people can look at if they start to collect packs with the NBA standard of pack rating still to come. And you'll hear about it here first. Mike, I know you got to go. Last question. I mean, do you know much about these Bo Jackson? Have you seen many of these, the Bo Jackson cards? No. The battle arena? I mean, I know what's going on and whatnot. I know. There are companies that grade boxes. I'm sure at some point if the business case is there, we'll examine that area as well. I know boxes have – especially display boxes, people love that stuff. And everyone just really wants to preserve the condition. It doesn't get a bunch of dust. And if it drops, it's not going to further damage it. So having a cool container of some sort to house it would be kind of cool. I mean like this battle arena cards that Bo makes. I don't know much about it. Yeah, okay. Because it's like the hardest thing to get. Yeah, no. I wondered if there's, probably just a matter of time, if they probably start showing up on your doorstep, I would think. If it's hot enough where the singles start coming, just like Pokemon started off as a game, Magic the Gathering, all those cards individually are fairly valuable these days. So leave it to our hobby to have Bo come up with an idea like this, have it get marketed, because it's been going on for quite a while and I've finally found its traction and here we sit. Yeah, I know. It's very cool. Mike, really appreciate your time as always. Always. And appreciate our friendship and still have some ideas for business. I want to get you down here again to do on-site grading, like you mentioned, or stickering and or authentication. We'll figure out those plans. And, of course, MBA, Diamonds, website, social details, anything like that, Mike? Any new details? Both of them are the same, grading.mba. both on Instagram, both on our website. So, you know, kind of make it easy. Like I said earlier, our pivot, our core, our flagship is the sticker. But it's led, we call it the crossover diamond because that sticker leads to it being able or a candidate for, not even a candidate, if it has it, it's going. So going into NBA graded holder. So we're looking forward to staffing up. We're scaling, as I mentioned earlier. So things are kind of in a growth spot. It's been fun. So hopefully the fun continues. You can also find Mike at WGG.com, world's greatest grader. I'm kidding. We just spun that one up, Mike. We have it as a big picture of you stepping on all the other grading companies. I'm just kidding. Mike, you can tell he's smart. He's playing it. He's adding value where people already are because he is the WGG. Mike, appreciate your time, brother. We'll see you at the National. Thanks so much, Ryan. Have a great day. The collector nation.com. You'll find links to Mike stuff, the WGG that he is, you know, I kid, but you know, it's, you know, it's the truth by this Josh Allen sitting in front of you because the heat map never lies. And neither do we. We'll see you next time. I'll collect your nation. Thanks for tuning into the show. Be sure to follow us on your go-to podcast platform and catch the full video episode over on YouTube. Visit us at collector nation.com and follow Ryan on Instagram at Ryan Alford. Now get out there and collect yours.