Inside VeeFriends: Building a New IP in the Modern Collectibles Market with Zachary Owings

Gary's Trojan Horse is V-France, defined for me in its core what V-France is. V-France was always Gary's way of how can he break through walls that his content as a human can't break through. In a world of no new IPs are truly being built, Gary and V-France are trying to do that. Welcome to the Collector Nation podcast here on the Collector Nation Network. Whether you're chasing trails or calling bluffs, you take you inside the hobby. Here's your host, Ryan Alfer. Hey, what's up guys? Welcome to Collector Nation. We got Zachary Owings lead global partnership and also relationships with V-France. I had to say at once Zach, I'm going to call you Zach. Look, all my buds, I have like five friends named Zach. I don't know how it is. It's my most popular friend name. One that I grew up with and so I just got to call you Zach. Either way, you're crushing it, man. Appreciate you coming on to show. I'm very honored to be here and you know, growing up, I used to think Zachary and Zach was like an exclusive name and then as I've gotten older, everybody's fucking named Zach and Zachary. So I really pissed at my parents in a real way that they could have gave me a little bit better of a name, but I'll make it better when I have kids to give them a more distinct unique name, but it's a real pleasure and I'm pumped up for the conversation. Yeah, man. Last thing I'll say about names, but every Zach I know is cool as shit. So far interactions with you and V-France has been nothing but that, so take that for what it's worth. What's cooking in Manhattan today, man? It's a semi-cold gloomy day in New York, but it's a busy day in the VaynerMedia V-France office right now. We're kind of simultaneously launching two kind of new pre-sale products all while, you know, we have top's chrome kind of floating in the balance, which is coming out June 10th. So we're super fired up about that. It's going to be year two. Topps is really on board with us now. We're getting a broader release of Sapphire this year. So we're working hard and we're really trying to build it and really build you know, distinct new categories that we believe in and see, you know, all while, you know, we have the greatest partnership in IP and the collectible space could have right now and that's with tops. So we're fired up and we're honored and excited to talk today. Damn. You said about 12 things right there, Zach, that could lead me down like seven different rabbit holes. I'm like, okay, usually somebody says something and I cue in on like one thing. You said like 12 things. The top relationships big. I mean, they have all the sports licenses that matter now. It seems just going to call a spade a spade. Yeah. And now they've got your franchise. You've had killer releases with them. I mean, I couldn't even get the shit last year. I mean, I was like, you know, I got a few boxes. I was like, I'll be able to go back and know. I couldn't even find it. I ended up getting in the secondary market, but crushed it with them so far with the chrome releases. What's it like working with tops? It's great, but I think you know, where people, you know, I think what people don't understand about the tops relationship is that we're two different businesses. We are the licensee. We are not tops. Topps is not own V friends. Gary does not own tops. There's no distinction. There is no business. It is, you know, it's, you know, people were kind of coming at us last year, not you, but like other partners were like, well, you know, you guys have the license. You should have got me more product. And it's like, we can only do so much with the licensee. And, you know, and that was really like lack of a better term was like a beta test for tops to see if V friends actually had the juice and the demand and the collectors to actually be a tops license. We obviously smack that out of the ballpark as a team. Gary's sitting at the helm of anything in the collectible space. We feel like we're in a position to do a lot. And then obviously Gary and Michael Rubin's relationship, you know, at the highest level is, you know, in a great place. So working with tops is amazing. They're the best partners. And we're we're happy to have them, you know, pushing us and kind of leading us into this next frontier of the hobby and the V friends. And as we continue to, you know, develop products with tops, hopefully and more categories. Like I said earlier, we have Chrome and Sapphire, you know, hopefully in a couple of years that I'll expand to more things because that's more distribution and more stores. You know, the biggest thing for us and what's been really hard growing V friends is really the footprint, you know, because everything we've come out with has been actually so successful that it sells out so fast. So when you go back to the store in a month, the product isn't there. And so we're trying to still balance like how do we play this volume game as we grow demand? Obviously tops, you know, a top box sitting on the shelf won't last very long in the world we live in, especially if it's like an appropriate price. Two, you know, how we think about, you know, our products outside of tops, you know, our superstickers, our pins, our treasure chest, you know, we're coming out with literally a collectible coin product as we as we speak because collectible coins are the fastest growing life shopping product. And we're like, okay, well, how do you keep that with the volume of like we don't want to ever over print demand? We need to keep demand in the system all while we're continuing to grow the pot. And we feel like our Trojan horse in the best way possible is our tops license. We think that's only going to do great for our brand and having V friends attached to that is great. And we think more people who don't know V friends or maybe don't like V friends or don't like Gary will give it a second look when they see that and we get the by accident customers that then become massive collectors. Yeah. But very insightful there, by the way, I was sitting there going, wow, this is a very thoughtful answer. And I got, yeah, I followed every bit of it. But it also brought up another 12 things. But let me start with this Zach, I had to go there since you brought up tops. But I've known Gary a long time. You know, Gary's been out there. He's like the king. He started, he probably, I'll call him the godfather of like personal branding, you know, I mean, I don't know who if you're giving anybody else, I probably would, you know, go your full shit. He's built, I mean, obviously a global brand around his name and then all these offshoots defined for me and it's core what V friends is and where you guys are sitting in the hobby space and, you know, and dovetail that maybe into, you know, Gary's brand and et cetera. So I'm going to take the second thing you said first and then I'm going to go into the other ones. Perfect. V friends is a very niche community and product. Let's call it what it is. It is, it is a new IP and a world of there's zero new IPs being built. Marvel, Disney, DC and these aren't, and these aren't like, I'm not being negative towards them. They have a business they're doing projections. If they know Lilo and stitch number two is going to sell rather than this new IP, why wouldn't why wouldn't you do that? If I can guarantee you two billion dollars in sales to do this or you have no idea what is going to happen in XYZ IP, what are you going to do? It's just business at the end of the day. In a world of no new IPs are truly being built. Gary and V friends are trying to do that. We're trying to do almost the impossible in a lot of ways and Gary compares V friends to trying to be Pokemon. Pokemon is the most successful IP of all time sitting at 100 billion dollars. It's going to be hard to ever come close but we feel like if we can get close enough to the sun, we will have a good enough market share to have a real business and be able to do really what Gary wants to do, which is back to my favorite word these days with V friends and talking Gary is always Trojan horse. Gary's Trojan horse is V friends. Like you just said, Gary's kind of the godfather of personal branding. Gary's content is always motivational. How to run your business, process, take your feelings out of it, do right by your employees. If you're depressed, stop doing the shit, get away from the negative people like that type of content and the stuff he talks about. For some people, it works. When I discovered Gary, I was like, damn, there's one of the fuckers saying some real shit. I should look myself in the mirror. Some people close to me when I first followed Gary and before I even worked for him, I was putting people on and people like, why would you follow this dumbass? Gary doesn't work for those people but there's some people Gary will work for. V friends was always his way of how can he break through walls that his content as a human can't break through and we feel like the collectible of V friends, whether it's patient panda and notorious ninja are motivated monster or kind warrior. We feel like if we can build enough with tops with our comic books, with other collectibles we come out with, with the TV show, with the children's book, with toys that we feel like will slowly start to break through the walls that his content can break through and that at the end is like what we want to be. We want to be somewhere where we can help inspire people, motivate people, help parents become better parents, help kids understand that like, shit, I should be kind to my brother and sister. I should be kind to my parents. I should thank them for buying me the $500 baseball bat that most people don't have the money for and I understand that that's a privilege and I should be thankful for that. So that's really what V friends is trying to be. I know Gary likes to compare it as like Pokemon Sesame Street. I think that is the best analogy but at the end of the day we're just trying to be V friends. We're trying to create our own kind of I would say niche or market share within the hobby because the hobby is only growing bigger and bigger and I think as we continue to develop, you know, it's not a hobby anymore. This is a business. There's billions and billions and billions of dollars floating around and private equity is like three seconds away from starting to buy Michael Jordan and PSA 10 Cinderella super fractures as an investment, you know, as they're one, two, three, four percent investment portfolio because the performance is 400 percent a year or over five years and the S&P is 20 percent. So we're so close to having so much money pour into that. So we think a rising tide lifts all boats and we think V friends will be part of that. Plus we also feel like with Gary and tops and with building real cool collectibles and giving people to fall in love with the characters via the comic books. We're in a great position to succeed. Yeah. I'll say this. I don't agree with every idea that Gary's ever had or every take that he's had, but I'll say this. There's no one that I've told people like this. Like if you if you don't like Gary's content or him, you don't know them. Number one, and number two, it just means he's right about 100 and people don't like that. They don't want the mirror on them. And I'm just, you know, you can everybody's got flavor. I like chocolate. I like strawberry. That's fair, but you can't argue with 90% of what Gary preaches. So we'll leave that there for the haters because I don't agree with it. It's not a, oh, Gary, I trust. I mean, there's shitty. I don't agree with that, but I respect the hell out of his position on it because I know it's formulated from a from a place of good. At the end of the day, you shouldn't agree with anybody 100%. Yeah. Like no one. I mean, no one. So you're 100% right. But if Gary's right about 70% of shit, then like cool. You might be like, boy, he's wrong. I think we get to 100%. Yeah. And I've always said like from a personal standpoint, he's helped me. Like he helped me look in the mirror. He's the reason, you know, I'm in the position I am today. And that was before I even knew he was a human. And, you know, what I would say about Gary being with Gary for four years and kind of this, what I call like right hand world, kind of the office of the CEO as he runs a 24 hundred person business behind me in 16 global offices. All while he has V friends, a restaurant group, a sports agency, and plus the investment hundreds of other companies and startup and DC plan. Gary's actually better is advertised. He's better than advertised. Like he is literally a better human and more kind and more thoughtful and more empathetic than he actually puts out his content. And so that's what we can leave it there. But like, yeah, we'll leave it there. And I know people that know him better than me. And I know him. And I know him to be that and people that know him better than me that I trust unconditionally would say the same thing. So we'll leave that there. You don't have to like being told what you don't want to hear. And you don't have to like to make a soup or whatever flavor it is. But it's coming from the right place. And he's right a lot. So just get over it. We'll leave that there. So who's the avatar? All right, the customer avatar, you know, four V friends. Because I hear, you know, Pokemon meets Sesame Street. And I would agree with that. I have kids. That's why I love the product and I love the positivity. We'll talk about some of the messaging. But I do step back sometimes in now owning a store that we broadcast in and selling the product in its cells. I do sometimes as a marketer first and everything else second step back and go, all right, who is this avatar? And I'm sure you guys are building it and refining it with everything you're doing. But who is that? Our avatar, I brought some very, very, very lucky black cap is by far our avatar. Like that is that is our Pikachu. Like that is that is kind of our mascot. Like that is what we're building. You know, the analogy comes from Gary growing up and even be growing up and probably, you know, you could say the same black cats were considered unlucky. So as Gary created this, he's like, all right, fuck the conspiracy theories. I'm going to flip it on the tab and like I'm going to make it actually lucky. And so that's kind of how it started. Obviously, the over, obviously, the over-emphasization of the varies is very, Gary asked, no pun intended. But also, you know, there's other emerging characters. Like this is this is the new kind of coin product, you know, that we're launching. And like these are massive characters. Like robot ninja duck, fairies, a massive character, Coffin and Cobra will have a big appearance. So like we're doing other things to kind of put, you know, other characters in the limelight. Like if you see our top chrome boxes, we're putting 50 characters on the box because we want people to see it and be like, well, we're not a known brand. Like, you know, Pokemon could put Pikachu on a box and it's good. They could put chargers on a box. It's good. They could put blast toys on a box. It's good. For us, we feel like we have to put more variety because it takes one kid, one parent, one adult, one teenager to be like, oh, that ninja looks dope, oh, that robot likes dope. Oh, the fairy looks dope. Like, and so we want to give people a variety of like these are kind of what the characters look like because we got on board people. We got like, we're building the brand every day. It's only five years old. But the black cat is our mascot. But you'll start to see very, you know, just like Pokemon, you know, there's there's 10 characters everybody knows or five characters. Everybody knows. And that's kind of how where V friends will eventually sit once the dust settles of, you know, there's going to be six, seven, eight, 10 characters that people know and consider the mascot or main characters of the set. But as it sits right now, the black cat is the symbol like this is the graded coins that are the new set. Like in the label, we have the black cat mascot. You know, and this is the ninja, you know, this is the OGR ninja. So like, we're really pushing the black cat to be the thing. And it's been fun as people have no idea what G friends is. They'll be like, I don't know anything, but I know the black cat is big. And that's kind of, and that's really the brain in that like we're trying to build like if you understand one thing, like the black cat's cool, just like Pikachu's cool. Yeah. Who's the customer? Who is that customer for V friends? Like the, you know, maybe the coins might be a whole different thing. I mean, the comics might be a whole different thing. So maybe let's focus on the cards, you know, who is that sort of what's that customer look like and who are and I'm not going to be able to give you a direct answer because it's actually the truth. Like our customer is really anybody actually like it's an adult, it's a parent, it's a kid, it's a teenager, it's someone who likes Gary, it's someone who stumbled upon V friends in a time of like they were depressed in the community helped lift them up. And now they're the biggest V friends collector or you know, they stumbled upon the comic book and I know you said not to mention that like the real answer is it actually is anybody because it's so positive and it's not like graphic, it's not inappropriate. Like yes, there's some swear words involved, but like everybody swears and parents, if you think your kids, yeah, exactly like parents, if you think your kids aren't swearing, they're definitely swearing when you're not around and same with the parents, you guys are swearing. So like for us, like we, it really is anybody, I would say our kind of current like demo, if you were like, hey, I have to box you in maybe like 25 to 40, which is kind of a big range, but like that's kind of what I would say. But it really is anybody because it's so not that it's like PG, it's just like it's appropriate for anybody and I think anybody can relate to it. Like you might a 40 year old might open this, you'd be like, this is corny as hell, but a 40 year old could open this and be like, this is dope. You know, so like to us, it really is everybody, but like 25 to 40 might be the age range, but we're continuing to obviously still win that demo. Like why would you go away from a demo you're already winning on? But like for us, it's obviously like, how can we get kids on it? And that's, you know, through the children's book, through, you know, the children's TV shows, through toys, through comics, and also onboarding parents to that onboard their kids. And that's kind of how we think about it. Do you feel like there's, you know, when I think of the hobby right now, you know, it's sports cards and Pokemon. And yes, there's one piece in there's magic and there's every, you know, and do you feel like you guys get more crossover from the Pokemon crowd or the sports card crowd sports? Yeah, I would say that, you know, I would say Pokemon people are very guarded, especially if they're like really Pokemon, they're very guarded. They just don't take two other things. Sports card people, when our top's chrome 2025 dropped, we found a lot of sport through and be like, this is dope. And that could have been because of his top's chrome. It could have been because it was Gary. It could have been because they just like, it was something new. I would say sports, people are like more likely to, I think, be onboarded. But I also think like, I'm glad I'm on this podcast because I can really be on wax now. I think fictional, and that's Disney, Marvel, V friends, one piece, all that obviously TCG space is like crazy right now. Yeah. I think fictional will far outpaced sports in the next two years, not even close. And obviously Pokemon is going to lead that kind of like tied, you know, rising. But like, I think, I think if I went to any nook and cranny in the world and showed him a, if I just hung up a picture, no words on and said, who is this? And it was Superman. They'd beg that Superman. If I show him a picture of Tom Brady, who's probably the most well-known athlete in America, they'd be like, I don't know who the fuck that is. So like, to me is like, fictional is kind of already happening. And I think that's going to continue to outpace. And but sports card people, I think people who have been hard sports are going to slowly start to get into fictional, which is going to raise the boats. And I think people that are in fictional are just going to go harder because there's going to be more money or they're going to make more money or they're going to see more opportunity, you know, whatever it is. But yeah, definitely sports people, I think, take towards V friends a little bit more. And it could be multifaceted because of tops or Gary. It's interesting. I was, I collected growing up and put it all on the shelf, like a lot of people when I was 13, 14, basketball playing year round, girls, cars, school, you know, and it went on the shelf. My boys brought me back into it two years ago. And I came back in, I'd heard Gary talk, Gary's been talking about it for 10 years or more. I'm probably longer, but I heard him, you know, digesting his content well before my boys got into it. And they got back into it, obviously. And I'm interested, but you know, your kids bring you back and that. And what what's been fascinating to me is with the evolution of the hobby and the data and the information is you've got these two realms of collectors and investors slash flippers. And it's a fascinating part of the hobby. Yeah. Where do you feel as though, you know, your opinion on that landscape and maybe just where V friends fits in all that? Obviously, Gary is the first person to say flip life. So obviously, I think that you're very. Yeah, it's very, it's very heavy and just the Gary community and V friends community. But we also have real collectors. Listen, a 99 dollar top's Chrome box doesn't go to $700 because everybody's flipping someone's got to rip it and someone's got to want it and someone's got to want to collect it. Like that's point blank period. We're definitely flip life. There's definitely investment. And there's definitely just hardcore collectors that probably think about investing like I just like the kind warrior character. And I just want to collect every single card I possibly can and like I'm never going to sell it. But you know, if I die, my kids will take it over. They want to sell it. Whatever. You know, and I think all three of those levels V friends does hit and the hobby needs all three of them. Like, you know, I think people like, and you really hear it with Pokemon, the scalpers and the flippers and like they buy them all and then the price goes up and it's like supply and demand dynamics. Like that's that's life. Like, that's the stock market. That's real estate. Like, supply and demand is everything. And there's obviously the equilibrium that I don't know if the hobby will ever hit, you know, just like the stock market never really hits an equilibrium. Like it's never just like flat for 10 years. So, you know, I think V friends hits all three. I think the hobby needs all three. And I think like where I, you know, me personally in position, I'm a hard core collector. But I think about from the collecting standpoint of the investor in me where I'm like, I'm going to take chances on this card because whether I sell it, you know, in five years, I think it'll go up in value. Or if I never sell it, I still think it'll go up in value. Like for me to buy a $2,000 card and be like, I just got it for fun. Like I'm just not like that. I'm like, I'm putting $2,000 here. I think because of supply and demand because of the arbitrage, because it's a low print on PSA. Like, there's a lot of math that goes on. And you know, Gary's talked a lot about kind of the vintage fictional working cards, Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Iron Man, all that. Like, it's real. Like those cards don't exist. They don't, you know, and especially in the day and age of like, how many cards are being printed and how popular the hobby is. You know, for me, where I invest is really series one V friends cards and sealed product. And then, and then literally like the vintage rookie cards of like, Iron Man, Spider-Man, Batman, I can't afford the Superman cards. But that kind of marvel set, you know, Ninja Turtles, Tom and Jerry, Rick and Morty, Timmy Turner, rookie cards. Like, I play in that kind of world because the print run is so low. But I think about it from an investing collecting standpoint. But I got some vintage stuff in the case over here. You said turtles. I got some, some vintage boxes over here that I bought off of like this guy. And they're for sale, but I'm sick of guessing it. Of course. You know, listen, I always tell people when they have something they don't want to sell, put it up there for a crazy price. Yeah, that's that. I don't want to literally know what to buy. Nobody. But if one person does, you mean, it's a lot of money. You know, like, I always tell people that, but like, it's it's also like the fun part of the hobby. Like, you know, a good piece of advice I got early in the hobby. I bought my very first and the first ever card I ever bought as an adult was a PSA one Batman rookie card. And I literally was obsessed with it. I literally was obsessed with it. And so and pulled me aside, um, our lead media buyer at VaynerMedia. He's like a whiz with numbers and like loves collecting. He's like, listen, he's like, if you love the card that much, go buy another one. So if someone ever gives you a crazy offer, you can sell one and you still have one. And so that's what I try to do where I'm like, all right, if I love a card too much, I need to get more so that I can sell some and keep the at least the one I want. Um, I have interesting. I thought I was the only one that did that. I have like duplicates of like my favorite players Josh Allen in football. And then, but I have a I want to Clemson. So Trevor Lawrence and all those Clemson guys. So it's like Josh Allen and Trevor. And I've got like duplicates of like all their biggest rookies because of that very reason. At the end of the day, it's it's good business. Like at the end of the day, it's bad business. Not to sell if someone's giving you an offer. That's like makes you think twice. And then you might regret regret one day, buy another one, sell it. And then you're like, all right, this one's paid for. It's tucked away forever now. Talking with Zachary Owings, he's the lead global badass at V friends. Just gave him a new title. We'll put that on your resume. Um, like that. Uh, Zach, you said something that I want to unpack a little bit. And it's so, you know, I around the same plane and thinking, not surprising knowing you work with Gary, but the, uh, I laugh at the posts and the trolls that talk about the scalpers and talk about product. And, and I, and I respond like I'll take time. I have no time. I mean, none of us do, but I have no time to respond to trolls. But I will occasionally when I do. And I, here's what I write. If these scalpers weren't doing what they're doing, or there wasn't that demand that they're creating your collection, we were shit. Supply and demand is real. And you need that to happen on some level or, and we can argue whatever, a lot of the retailers are putting in limits and things. So yeah, we want it to be fair. I'm not trying, you know, one guy can't walk in about 400 things. I get that. We got to have a bit of fairness in it. But it's also, if that guy wants to get up at 3 AM, we live in an American society of free capitalism and also get up at 3 AM, wait in line and get how many ever he can buy. Uh, he's just working harder than you. And number two, your, your collection isn't worth what it's worth because everybody wants it to be worth. You'll want everything to be worth $500,000. But guess what? If that, what demand was it there, you wouldn't, it wouldn't be worth that. It would be worth zero. And what's even funny is the people who are mad at the scalpers are actually jealous that they're not the ones getting all the product. So they could be the monopoly and control the market. There it is. Ding, ding, ding, ding. The truth. It's pure on collectionation. Yeah. It's literally the funniest thing of all time. And like, scalpers and like, you know, prices going from, and we felt it, you know, with our tops comes that going from $99,000 to $700 and six months, like that prices a lot of people out. It was great for us. And we felt honored and like, we were like, damn, this is crazy. But two, we were also like, it's hard to onboard somebody like, hey, you've never heard of VFronts. Here's a $700 hobby box. Yeah. Those are hard dynamics. Yeah. So I, and I get it from both sides, but at the end of the day, a lot of the people, mad at the scalpers are actually just jealous that they just got beat to the punch. Yeah, exactly. And then the guy, then there's this guy, the complain about the pricing of stuff, but they still want the cards to be worth a million dollars. They want a one-on-one win B or a one-on-one black hat. They want it to be worth $100,000. But they want that box to cost or to pack to cost $2.99. That's not the way it works. Yeah. It's like, it's definitely not the way it works. So it's like, you can't have it all these people. I'm like, and look, I get it. Look, I understand both sides. I'm pathetic to it. But like, if there's not the chase, if the chase isn't there, you don't have the demand. If you don't have the demand, you don't have the price. If you don't have the price, your collection is shit. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And I hate to be a paid spokesperson here. But you know, a big thing why, and I know you guys were a big part of this launch, was the spectacular superstickers we did. Yeah. Our superstickers are for two reasons. Transparently, we can't legally print cards when it comes to our tops license. So our superstickers are our way to continue to kind of feed the card market, but in a much cheaper way. So like, these spectacular superstiggers, right? For a box is 120 bucks for 12 packs, which is like very cheap in the hobby landscape. Yes, this is a supersticker. But the set we do with Steph Curry, the one before this, the manga superstickers, the Steph Curry Gary dual auto to 10 sold for $17,000 on Superbowl Sunday. Pretty good. Two. And this set alone, there was three different bounties, 10,000, 15,000 and 20,000 dollars in the best three. Five of the six best black cat inserts haven't been hit that are probably worth thousands of dollars. We feel like, yes, back to your point of like the scalpers and stuff being too expensive. That is definitely a thing. But where we feel like our superstickers help get to the cheaper price point, but actually the ROI of like, if you have the worst box ever and sell every single card, you know, you lose 80 bucks, whatever. We also have the upside. If you hit one single card, you can five times your money or 10 times your money. And we feel like the collector base that we're building and obviously building the brand with superstickers and tops kind of aligned. We hear that from the price point standpoint, which is why our products mean so much to us specifically kind of the superstickers, because they're kind of like our card set for now. And we think it's super important to give somebody an appropriate price so they can actually rip because a lot of like the hobby is like the fun of the rip. It is the fun of the chase, you know, to your point like everybody wants, of course, everybody wants to fucking when be kaboom. Nice. Nice. I don't really collect sports cards. I want the when be kaboom. Obviously. So, you know, there's that, but like we feel like as the hobby grows like, yes, there needs to be the $10,000 boxes. There also needs to be the $10 boxes, you know, because people, because people can't afford sometimes $100, $200 extra a month. That is a real dynamic in this life. Like I know it kind of gets lost within the hobby, because even though I called it a business, but like hobby, because it's like it's fun, it's an escapeism, but like there's real people out here struggling. And I think if the hobby needs to grow, there needs to be the $10,000 box for the person who does want to only chase the when be kaboom, but there's also so many people that I think are being missed out on. And that, well, you know, whether it's fee friends, whether it's tops, whether it's panini, whether it's another card company that inserts itself Pokemon, the dynamics of having that couple dollar pack, or that $10, $20 box on board so many new people to the hobby that as they grow up and get more money, then they might be in the market for the $10,000 box that they become successful. So, you know, those are dynamics that we think about every day at fee friends. And obviously we're a we're a small fish in a massive ocean, but we're going to keep eating food and growing and, you know, we're trying to get there to help, you know, on board people to obviously fee friends, but the hobby in general, like at the end of the day, like the more people that comes into the hobby, helps be friends. There's no like, if someone only collects Pokemon, it fucks us. That is not true at all. If more people collect Pokemon, be friends by accident, people are going to double upon Gary's content. A live show that we're doing. They're going to walk in your store and be like, what is that? That looks kind of dope. That's not super expensive. Oh, I've actually seen the eBay sales on that. And so that dynamics I threw a lot at you, but I just raises all ships, baby. Yeah, I think it was a good time to be a paid spokesperson there. Yeah, it does. And I'm going to pause until Bella to please go grab some of the better fee friends sticker cards that we have. And the pack, because I've pulled a lot of them. I'm I'm our biggest. No, well, I'm in the store, but I, uh, I mean, the boys rip as many friends as anyone. And we sold almost as many as probably as a store, a store that's two months old. Yeah. And so we sell, but I want to show it because I want people to see a couple of these from my perspective, the hits we've gotten, because they're cool and they're fun to open. And they lean into just enough of kind of the hobby, um, mechanisms, the numbered stuff and all that with also being differentiated. Um, Zach, while she's doing that, let's, let's talk a little bit, um, about the experiential side of V friends, Vcon, those types of things and how that all kind of works together. Yeah. So Vcon was part of the NFTs when they first came out. Gary promised three years of Vcon. We did that two years ago. Last one was in LA. It was really exciting. We're definitely going to do it again. We talked about it maybe doing it this October, got postponed. Vcon is just what we call kind of like a mega super business conference of 150 speakers, all V friends, people, one, white people, you know, based on kind of Gary, the NFTs, he owned so we can give tickets out. Um, but it's, it's really just one big community event to whether it's a speaker that you love, you know, your best friends in the community you can meet. It's one big fucking hangout. Like it's really that. So that's kind of like the experiment, experiential side, um, that we did, you know, based on the NFTs, we're hoping to kind of get back into Vcon, but it's, it's a, it's a heavy lift. And I think, you know, the Vcon's going forward will have a lot more collectible element to it that the first three were kind of more like business, business, business, business, but that was because we didn't have top scroll and a lot of people didn't really know about the cards and the collectibles and obviously the hobby is over the last two years as 10 times bigger. Um, and it's only going to get bigger. So we'll continue to play with that and build on that, but that's, that's where Vcon has attached, which is actually the NFTs, which is our digital collectible, which if Gary was on this call or if he busted through this door right now would be like never buy anything physical only by the, the series one NFTs, because he fully believes where one is that as an asset, as the world continues to pivot harder into technology and AI and instead of cell phones were wearing glasses that that's when the NFTs will really start to take hold and I think people will understand it. Plus I were, we're literally like a stone throw away from BlackRock headquarters who every day is talking about tokenization of every single asset on planet earth. And so it's happening. NFTs and the boom and the bust obviously happen very similar to internet stocks. The internet is very much here. If the internet, if the internet got turned off today, I don't know what would happen to the world, but I don't want to be a part of it. And I think NFTs will eventually over the next 10, 20, 30 years will cement themselves as something like that. And it's specifically as the hobby grows and as more big brands, whether it be top, pinini, the pinini black chain, those NFTs are crazy with the kaboom. So we, we feel like we're well positioned to be one of the best what we call digital, which is digital physical IPs that exist. It's, it's, I mean, we could do a whole episode on that. Yeah. So I want to ask you some things without burying us too far as we're towards the back half of the episode here, but it's, I was, I'm not a, I'm not a fortune teller like Gary, I don't think Gary's more practical than he is fortune teller. You know, I think he's a practitioner. He executes better than anyone, probably more than anything, but he's definitely probably more of a fortune teller than I would ever consider myself for, you know, in, but I will say I kind of panned the whole, I just thought I was too early with the NFT and the metaverse and all that. I was like, this is coming, but I don't think it's now. And I think I, I think I might have been right about that. Yeah. But it's definitely still here. And I definitely see the value that I have kids. I got an 10 year old to 16 for, four boys. It, they value digital things in a way that we certainly didn't. So I'm not naive to that. They also value physical things too. So it's, it's not a, it's a, it's a, uh, and not an or always, always, that's the Gary, that's the Gary in there right there. Well, yeah, I mean, I believe that wholeheartedly, the so true, but it's like, but I do struggle knowing and saying what I just said, but no, it's not like going to be a flip of the switch when I think, I think that's what we tried to make it a little bit was, okay, it's here. NFTs go metaverse gone, flip the switch on. It's clearly not that it's going to be a slower build while everything else is moving so fast. But I still struggle a bit. I love to know your perspectives, Zach. Um, where are we in that pendulum swing? Cause there's definitely value. Yeah. But I think you know what I'm asking, I'm going to let you respond. Yeah, I'm literally, I'm literally trying to look up in the last month. How many NFTs were sold? And I better say a ridiculous number. Okay. amount of, yeah. So look at, so April 2026, that's now. Yeah. Looks like 546 million in NFTs sales was this month. Wow. Is that dollars? Yeah, yeah. Million dollars. Yeah. So what I would say is in the pendulum swing, we had the boom, we're definitely not at the high again. That was euphoria. Yep. That was not real life. That was COVID. Yeah. Everybody was at home. Yeah. Had a good money. They really, then they really had the government, the government was giving you money to do nothing. Everybody was bored. Yeah. It became a gambling and a casino. But the NFTs have real, like listen, the blockchain, everybody actually uses NFTs. There's not call NFTs more than you think. Have you, Ryan, have you ever done a doc inside? Absolutely. That's an NFT. Yeah. So like, I think like as people get educated and understand that, like, that's an NFT. Do you have a mortgage? That that would be better on the blockchain. So like, I think those dynamics of like actual real life as those continue to cement themselves. I've always said that I don't think NFTs are when they become the thing aren't going to be called NFTs. You know, the internet was called the worldwide internet. That was just the internet. Yeah. So like, I think it will shorten or something will change within that. But, you know, we had the boom, we had the bust. And I think we're just somewhere less like slowly kind of inching up. We're definitely like not on the floor. You know, I don't know what like percentage. We're definitely not like halfway to the boom. But I think there's more action on NFTs than people think. And it's only going to take one company, one project to shine light onto it, to have the whole kind of onboarding system that we saw kind of overnight. It's interesting to me. And I'm building some IP myself around collector nation. And it's a fascinating thought process with what's happening with digital packs and physical inventory. And I'm sitting here as I'm building it, doing it, you know, my brain starts working and I go, and you got vaults, right? You got all this stuff where a lot of people don't ever touch the card. And it's, we're dancing all around this notion of what we're talking about here, right? We're literally dancing on it. Just no one wants to say it. Yeah, it's really that. Like, it becomes an education. It's like, if I went outside right now and I was like, do you want to have to the big, oh, I don't want that scam shit that like doesn't exist. But if I was like, hey, did you know this month, there was $546 million, shoulder NFTs, they break away what? Yeah, they would have no idea. And then at two, it's like, okay, you've never, oh, you've never used an NFT. Have you ever digitally signed a contract and sent it back? That's an NFT. And it would actually, it would actually be probably more efficient if it was on the blockchain because you would legally be able to see it land and approved and like when the person's like, oh, I lost it. You'd be like, oh, it's actually on the blockchain. I have it right here. You can't lie to me. You know, so like people actually have no idea. The blockchain actually brings a lot of full, a lot of transparency and things that get lost. And in my biggest spokesperson where I could just mic drop back to BlackRock, that's the third biggest country asset wise in the world behind US and China. And they say tokenization is going to take over and they're already doing it because they are. They already are doing it with bonds with with with treasury bonds. If they're the third biggest doing it, and they're massive in America, what do you think's about to happen? You know, whatever you feel about Trump and our president, like he's talked a lot about Bitcoin and crypto. It's happening. He literally said that crypto is going to boom overnight if they can get the legislation right and and provide the guidelines because that's all people are waiting for in a lot of ways. They just want the guidelines before they invest. So if they lose money or if they get sued, they have they have legal things to like help themselves so they don't lose and they don't get fired. That's all everybody's waiting for. And I think as people get educated, as we see bigger countries, bigger companies slowly start to dip their toes into it a little bit, that will be kind of the pendulum swing to your point that I think a lot of big players are waiting on and Gary for a long time. Like he knew like I'm going to be early. That's why I have to talk about all this. A lot of these projects are going to go to zero. V friends obviously was very expensive and it came down. But like, you know, you can go on OpenC right now and try to buy a Series 1 NFT, the cheapest one, $6,000. I don't know many people sit with $6,000 to buy an NFT these days. So I would say we're doing all right. Plus we have a whole physical brand with comic books, a TV show, a touch chrome deal. Like we're really doing it and we're really a company I can show 25 people behind me that are working every single day as hard as possible on V friends to build the physical part. So the digital is slowly going to come back. It just takes time. Like people people are impatient. Like the internet boomed and crashed, you know, and then it took 20 years until COVID before everybody looked at each other like social media and the internet's the only thing that matters. Yeah. So I would like to say, okay, from the bust of whatever it was, 2022, 2023, let's give it 20 years and let's see where it sits. And I think V friends will be in a good place and I just think NFTs in general will be a massive part of investing collectability asset wise. Yeah, scarcity and availability, you know, will drive all of that. And the fact that my kids place value on digital pretty closely equal to physical in a lot of ways. Like they care what their skin is in fortnight. They care like, you know, I need to jump in there. I need to jump in there. And this is one thing Gary goes really well and like something that I've gotten better on the more I've been with him. Your opinion means fucking nothing. Yeah, it means nothing. Because like if you're like, I would never buy an NFT digital sucks crypto sucks. Guess what? And 20 years when your kids are actually the ones that have to say, if they're like digital is everything and crypto is everything and NFTs or everything, guess what it is? Those are everything. Yeah, your opinion does not matter. And that's what Gary does really well where like he takes his feelings out. And he's like, what's the trend? What's the data? What's actually happening? And then, okay, let's make an assumption. $546 million to something that is a fad. Looks like a pretty good business to me. Yeah, it's definitely swinging. I see it. I don't know when the right, I think, yet the way your options, if it is an investment of where you want it to, there's plenty to as we close out, Zach, I know we've gone a little bit over time. I appreciate that I just wanted to show, look, how cool these are. We'll have these. I don't know. Yeah, we've got, I've got, I don't know. This is at a $299 brave bison. I've got, oh, out of 55. This guy, if you can see that, I can't see it that far. They're very cool looking. I'm telling you, like when you get, when you rip one of these, the sticker pass, and you brought it up. So I'm going to hold it up. You're going to know what it is. That's the step crew crossover. Oh, yeah, that's good. Those are fun. From the super sticker. I want to say it as we close. I think the staff curry manga set will forever be one of the most underrated things we've done at V friends. And it's a big deal. Listen, I meet my own dog food. I'm sitting at a sealed case of manga. Super stickers for the long term. I have no plans to sell it. I think it'll forever be one of the most slept on products because as V friends becomes more popular, Steph Curry's literally one of the best basketball players of all time completely changed, like the way basketball has played this day and age is because of Steph Curry. And there's no other answer. That is correct. So, and obviously the autographs and the cards go crazy. That's the Chilch and Chilla. With Gary sign that for me. Gary sign that for me. Let's go. Let's go. So, yeah, the Steph Curry product, which is back to kind of our super stickers, you know, those bucks are 80 bucks online, you know, with super stickers going for thousands of dollars. So we feel like the dynamics and, you know, we're lucky. I mean, that's a big deal for the V friends. I think you're right about it and underrated because and or underappreciated what that really means is one of the greatest players of all time. He changed the dynamic of the game with three points shooting. He will be in the Hall of Fame. He's going to retire soon next couple of years, probably just father time gets us all. And you got shared product with them, dude, like, uh, okay. Our first, our first and also the real story is that was our first broad release product that we did as a company in five years. Like that. We did, we supplied it to 197 of our partners and did it that way as like we continue to try to build our business up. And a kind of a direct way. So, you know, maybe it was, you know, we didn't market it enough or we thought it would do itself. And we didn't feel like we had to do anything because top's chrome exploded. And I'm happy with it. And I'll continue to buy sealed boxes and cards that I feel are underpriced when it comes to that set because staff curries only going to go on more popularity. Yeah. I think that's point blank and V friends is trying to do the same. So was it underprinted or overprinted? Uh, was definitely underprinted. All right. There we go. I left the witness a little bit there to the answer. But I also, if you're listening, uh, uh, listen, full transparency, we could have printed a lot more a lot more based on the demand we had for that because that was actually coming off the back of tops. And everybody was mad. They didn't get it or the people who got it made a ton of money. Like, we could away overprinted. But like, that's, you know, that's also the best thing about us. And I think what Gary does a really good job is like, he scared the death to overprint anything because he knows how back to the scalpers in demand. Like we have to keep demanded the system and we can't overprint. And like, we're trying to like really fucking grow this thing and really do it for the long haul. Like this is not an overnight rug poll. You know, we've been here for, for five years. So if we're trying to pull a rug, we're really bad at our jobs. Um, and, you know, we're, we're, we're good humans that are trying to do the right thing. And, you know, really try to break through with the hobby at large. Well, if y'all do a hobby shop road. So you got to get to collect your station. Uh, yeah, we are. I can do my own personal one. I don't know if I'll bring a crowd, but I can make my own personal pit stop. We have a cool store. This is, we are the hobby shop of the future experiential 3000 square feet. Uh, it's, I wouldn't, look, I know I let the man have, I don't, I'm not like, hey, come down to my store, my 10 by 10 in the mall unit. No, it's a standalone building. And so we're, we're going to be the flagship store of South Carolina. And we will always carry V friends. So, um, Zach, drop some deets, uh, where they can learn more. Keep up with what you're up to with the company, V friends, all that stuff. Yeah. So obviously anything at V friends is our main account V friends cards is also kind of a fun. I would say more human facing account of everybody kind of behind the scene. So V friends, V friends cards are always great places. Also, we'll keep up with the most up to date information. Obviously you could follow Gary. Um, and then my personal social and all platforms is Zachary Owings, O-W-I-N-G-S in the number two. Um, you can find me there if you have any interest B to B, collect their questions, thoughts, concerns. Um, you can reach out to me there. And, um, we're going to be around. Hopefully, um, you'll see our products in more stores soon. Tops Chrome is going to be June 10th. Sapphire is going to be July 1st. Um, and then obviously kind of our comics, our superstickers, our coins, treasure chest product. Um, you know, we're looking to kind of get more into the world with those. And so we hope you can find it a store or online store breaker, you know, near you. We'll do a follow up on the, the coins, uh, Zach, let's do that. And like, I don't know, the next 30 days, maybe we'll do a follow up with that release and talk more about it. So we call it really broadly about the brand and everything going on. Hey, I really appreciate your time. Love what you guys are doing. Support it. And I look forward to growing our partnership. Likewise. Likewise. I appreciate it Ryan. I've really enjoyed this. Hey guys, you know, to find us the collector nation.com, building the whole new ecosystem there, you need to check it out. New apps, new media, as we bring you the best of all collectibles, trading cards, all the info and insight. And let me tell you, a few friends is right there. Don't, don't miss the bus. This is your warning. Go find some of those, uh, uh, hobby cards in the, uh, V1, like literally, you can't find it. Like this is, it's coming out soon. So you better buy it early. And of course, I always love what Gary's up to. Appreciate Zach. We appreciate you for putting us in the top five of sports on Apple this week. We love you. We'll see you next time. I'll collect your nation. Thanks for tuning into the show. Be sure to follow us on your go to podcast platform and catch the full video episode over on YouTube. Visit us at collectornation.com and follow Ryan on Instagram at Ryan Allford. Now get out there and collect yours.