Gordy Bonker left Wall Street for THIS: Why Sports Cards Are the Ultimate 'Hidden' Asset Class

If you didn't listen to the end, you didn't get the scoop. We pay to go to the movies and you walk away with nothing when you leave the movies to cards you at least still have. I really like that point. I talk about it a lot as to why the hobby is the best hobby. That is like a cheat code of a hobby. Like if I'm going to spend my free time and make money, or at least at the very least not lose it, it's why it's one of the coolest hobbies to me. Welcome to the Trading Cards and Collectibles podcast on the Radcast Network. From Jason Grails to Colin Bluffs, I'm going inside the hobby. Are you ready to collect? Let's get at it. Here is your host, Ryan Alford. Hello and welcome to Trading Cards and Collectibles here on the Radcast Network. I hope everyone is doing all right wherever you are whenever you are. We appreciate we know you've got options. We're glad you made us one. Appreciate you keeping us at or near some of those sports charts we've been in. Don't know how or why, but we love you. The reason I think it is is because we have people like to guess what we have today. We've got the real guys making a difference in the hobby, doing something different, and providing quality content, conversations, and meaningful value to the hobby and his name is Gordy Bunker. What's up Gordy? Hey, what's up, Ryan. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah, man. I've been, you know, we talked before the episode that we met very briefly at the National and at the Lutics Lounds when there was some of the sports card nonsense guys. And then I've been a fan from afar. You're definitely in my, let's just say Gordy Bunker. It's so weird. Man, I can say this is a happily married man, but Gordy's in my feed every day. Yeah, man, I love your stuff. Thanks. I appreciate it. It's been an amazing, you know, this year I've had a ton of growth and I'm super grateful for it. And I think it's a factor of the hobby audience growing and people wanting to see more of the information that, you know, I personally have been so passionate about and following for a while and being able to kind of summarize and use a lot of my strengths and some of the things that I have personal interest in knowledge in has been super helpful. I'm glad to hear that it definitely brings some value to people. Yeah, man, it's sophisticated and it's, you know, being, I don't know, I'm a, like, I'm a hair down business guy. I mean, I've been and done a lot in the business world, but at the same time, I feel like I'm, I don't know, still a kid and still, you know, learning every day, but there's a sophistication with your stuff. And I don't know, like, and maybe it comes with some, you know, someone that appreciates vintage and it's doing the things that you are, but there's definitely a way and a manner about you that is both educational and meaningful. Thanks, man. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, before I was doing Bonkers, cards, content, full time, I've always had a passion for the financial services industry. I was working basically on Wall Street as an agency recruiter, specifically for financial services firms, primarily private equity hedge funds and investment banks. So I was doing a lot of financial services content related to the stock market, the job market, the economy, and it was a way for me to essentially establish trust credibility and brand with the candidate profiles I was building. You know, a lot of the hedge funds I was working with some of the best hedge funds in the world. Some of my biggest clients were the most notable investment banks that are out there. So I had to bring a certain level of sophistication and knowledge about the market at that time. And it wasn't hard for me because I've been, I studied business at Penn State. I've always loved finance and investing and I loved it. And it was really, you know, coming across the sports card market after a bit of time writing financial content that I discovered the untapped potential of what this space could be as an asset class. And I just started to build upon that and then before I knew it, the following I had about speaking about sports cards as an investment class outpaced the content I was doing in traditional financial services. So it was a crazy transition and I'm super grateful for that time as well because it helped me, you know, get a lot sharper on the content side, jumping in here, you know, running full head esteem. Yeah, I mean, it's, and it shows your education and your background shows. I hear a lot about the asset class thing. I personally believe in it or I wouldn't be here probably. It's certainly, for me, it's both fun and, you know, time with my boys and things that got me into the hobby. But ultimately, it seems untapped at the high end. And I think I know you were going to talk about that. But let me, let me lead the witness a little bit, at least with getting your feedback because I hear two sides of this. And like, my firm belief, I think, is yours. The untapped side of this. And then I have the naysayers that just can't get over cardboard, you know, being worth, you know, that and it not tanking one day or, you know, like being a bubble. I mean, how do you weigh that and what's sort of your response or what's giving you the confidence that you have that this truly is a long-term play? Yeah. Well, firstly, you know, collecting is centuries old. It is a human innate behavior. And then when you additionally layer on the fact that sports cards have been a marketable business for over 100 years as well, you layer that in. And then when you start to see the actual market of sports cards form somewhere around the 1950s and 60s where people see resale value of this stuff, you actually start to see like a historical performance of these cards. And one thing that is super notable and super high-end category, which I know we'll talk about more, is that it continues to compound and appreciate and value. Like, we have the data to support it. And it has a lot of characteristics that would go into it any other type of alternative asset class. You know, it's an interesting point you make. Yes, it is just pieces of cardboard. However, there are elements of scarcity to it. There's a true demand to it. You know, to your point, it's a fun activity to do with your kids. And I'm not necessarily saying that. Whatever the shiny refractors that your boys are opening up in cards should be something that you look at as an investment. But, you know, that being said, artwork is at the end of the day still just material that's put on canvas or paper. It's really the creator of that artwork or the scarcity of that artwork that drives its value. And when you recognize how valuable other alternative asset classes have been in the collectible space specifically, whether it's art watches, other pieces of antiques furniture, you've seen massive amounts of appreciation. And oftentimes it's very strategic from an advisory standpoint. There are advisors that specifically call on clients to speak to the investment grade of art. And that hasn't yet really been built or focused on in the sports card space. And, you know, I can compare what the Kager is of a Honest Wagner card pretty directly to other high-end, you know, collectibles. And you'll notice a massive growth from a Kager perspective that hasn't yet necessarily matched nominally to some of those other classes. Like, the highest end artwork pieces are selling for over $100 million. You know, the latest Honest Wagner cards, you see those prices anywhere from, you know, three, five, 10 million. And you might think it's a lot. But when you compare it to other, like, culturally relevant collectibles, it's not even close. And then if you were to take a step down from the Wagner and, you know, you look at what's happening in PSA 8, 9, 10s of some of the other most historically significant players, whether it be Mickey Mantle, Roberto Clemente, Jackie Robinson. You're starting to see that appreciation from a percentage to kick up, but it's still nowhere near nominally where I think it's going to go in the next, again, one, three, five, 10 years. And we get into why some of the other forces are driving that demand. But I couldn't feel more confident in saying this. And I've been saying this over the last, you know, two years that I've been writing about space and it keeps moving higher. And for all the same reasons that I said before and we're just seeing that start to accelerate just the early stage of it right now. So if you're losing and pay attention, you just got kind of a master class in what drives value. So, take notes, hit rewind, go back. But it does. Like, literally, and great comparisons with artwork being in there. I've often wondered myself. I'm like, you know, you look at stuff. I know what it used to be. You know, like I've been out of the hobby for 20 years pretty much. I mean, I always, what, I think once in the hobby, always in the hobby a little bit, like you pay kind of hear it. And Gary Vee has been in my ear for 10 years about it. And I'm like, and I quite a growing up. I'm like, I hear you, Gary. I did not believe him. Just didn't have time to believe him. I'll say that. And but then I look at the values. I'm like, man, wow, it's so much more than I'm like, I don't know if that's even scratching the surface. When you talk about rarity and demand and everything else for some of these cards, you know, from Jordan rookies to much less the mammals and stuff like that. It's, it's nuts. Yeah, you know, the Jordan rookie is a very culturally relevant card. And PSA 10 specifically though, it trades at a value that is nowhere typical of what a card would trade at for the amount of cards in the population, because what you were mentioning before rarity is a huge driver in what the value of this stuff will go forward on. And you look at the high end vintage baseball market specifically, the pop counts, population counts. So the total number of cards in existence in PSA 8, 9 and 10 is extremely scarce. The higher you go, you know, tens are basically off the table at this point. There are guys that have been in this 20, 30 years that saw this earlier than you or I did or able to acquire those tens and they really are not going to come out for public sale. Maybe they could move privately. It's very unlikely. And if they were to, there would be a huge premium paid for them. Essentially, you, if you were trying to acquire a 10 of a very notable card, you would be paying forward a lot of the appreciation because somebody that owns that card doesn't want to get rid of it. And quite frankly, they don't. They would bring such few people that could afford it. The ones that were there would ever pay or yes, it would be like just blank check almost. So you're looking at PSA 9 or SGC 9 copies of those super high end culture relevant cards of PSA 8s in some examples. And you're starting to see that volume or the value of those cards go through the roof. You know, an example I spoke about just this week, I sold two Roberto Clemente PSA 8 rookies in probably around July, August timeframe, right around August, August, August, September actually, because right up to the national, right around $90,000 privately, each. There's a PSA 8 Roberto Clemente ending this week at Heritage that if it were to hit the gavel as we're talking would close at 163,000. So yeah, and that's in the last three months. And I think in the point that I wanted to write, and I write weekly on my newsletter on Substack, you could check it out, bonkerscards.substack.com. Yeah, we'll have that linked for everybody listening, why that linked as Joe knows, so check that out. I make a point on the newsletter that you do actually see a notable change in some of this higher end stuff that happened right towards the end of the national in between that and when Kevin O'Leary publicly, you know, made purchase and talked about wanting to create an index of the greatest sports cards. And I don't, I actually, I can feel 100% confident in saying that I know that that's going to be replicated by other high net worth individuals either that want to have complete 100% ownership of the cards or they want to create a fun structure that's going to pool capital together to acquire what's left of the supply of the best of the best cards. And you know, if that becomes more of a public thing, I think you're going to see the valuations of the stuff move even higher. I think right what we're seeing right now is a lot of it kind of being speculated about and people trying to make it happen. I myself have been called about it a number of times of people wanting to start that. Yeah, I think the thing that is missing from all the people that are trying to do it is that you haven't had like a really big reputable firm or name put their name behind it and drive it because if you do that and even if you allow outside capital to invest into it as a strategy, I really see the demand for it. It just needs to be marketed and executed correctly. What's your thoughts, you know, Gordy just used a lot to unpack there. I go a hundred different ways, but I'm going to go this way because you brought it up at the high level certainly. A few companies I have have, because when I came back in, I'm like, well, why aren't they, you know, creating, you know, almost like stocks that, you know, you combine all these things and you split it up into shares. Well, companies have tried that and not been so successful, I think, with the, you know, aggregating. So, you're a smart guy. I can be smart. I won't say I'm as smart as you, but I, two relatively smart guys think that makes a lot of sense, but it's certainly the high end, you know, for guys coming in for 10 millions, one thing. But more, let's call it the retail investors, so to speak. Why has that not made it? I love that you bring that up. I think that is such a great observation and something that should be addressed because it is clearly not a product that is either A, marketed correctly or B, as much demand as people could think. I think rally still is trading, but the liquidity on that platform really isn't enough for people to want to invest their money into it. To me, one thing that I've noticed is the, the ones that are actually pulling this off are taking the majority ownership of it and there's not a lot of contributors of capital. It's usually one guy, maybe two guys, if it's like him and a family member or a really close friend. For some reason, the fractional ownership model and this has been kind of a shaky model across other assets as well. There's a company called Fundrise that invests into real estate in a fragmented way. There's also a perfect one for one comparison of this company called Masterworks where you can invest in fractionalized pieces of art and it's the same thesis as to why you would want to invest into art and sports cards and that hasn't really taken off and I think it's going to be important that whatever investment vehicle that whoever actually does nail this because I think there's probably a lot of listeners that just heard you and I speak the first 20 minutes of this interview and they're like, yeah, this makes complete sense to me. Like I would want to get some capital to this. But for some reason, there's a friction in terms of maybe it's the liquidity, maybe it's the marketing or the product that hasn't landed yet and I think that's still sitting out there for somebody who'd really execute and I'm rooting for Rally. I'm rooting for the people that are trying to do it. I've done some content at the Rally Museum before. I've met the people that have worked there. I think they were really early in seeing this. It's just like, somebody needs the execute on it. Otherwise, it will just continue to be like something that is for the high level high net worth elite wealthy class and that that class of people hasn't yet viewed sports cars sports cards in like a sophisticated manner. They've looked at artwork that way in antiques and specific artifacts but they haven't looked at sports cards that way and I think that's surprising when you recognize how culturally relevant it is in this moment. Like you're talking about how much your kids like to do it. It is something that has been happening for the last 30, 40 years and I think you just have to look at it at a longer tail. We don't have as much history on this as a market as we do the art market and I think with time, that will mature. I think it's and well put and I'm glad you feel like I do. I would have thought this would have blown up by now but it looks like some fairly well-funded thought out platforms like Rally and others. There's another one I can't remember the name of. It feels like they've made goes at it. I'm like the same as you. I'm like, I can do marketing. Is this marketing issue but I don't know. I think it's it's kind of what I saw. There's a surprising lack of sophistication in the hobby a little bit and it's not I think as more sophisticated people that understand long-term investing come into the space not all like billionaires but I think you might see that take off more and there's this proliferation of the scratch card gambling side of it. I want to address the gambling piece as well but you brought I don't want this thought to escape me while we're talking. Please. The other piece to what has been difficult for Rally collectible some of the other fractional ownership groups is the regulatory component of this makes it challenging and it makes people kind of walk away from it when you're looking at it like a pooled capital thing. So that's the first thing I wanted to make sure that there's a huge regulatory hurdle that people need to jump and the second piece when you're talking about like the lack of or there's not a ton yet of sophisticated individuals that are looking at the space. Part of that is because like this in itself is a hobby that was not meant to be at its core an investible asset class and all the things that we're talking about this is kind of like a side show of what the overall massive industry is which is a hobby a form of entertainment collecting isn't necessarily one for one thing that people think of that way and that's like okay and realistically if that ever goes away that could potentially alter some of the thesis as to why we're saying this stuff is going up in value. If you need both sides of that coin you do you absolutely do and you know where you were going with it in terms of the trends today and how a lot of the popularity of it is sitting on these stilts of the gambling industry and the growth of that we can absolutely get into because I think that is a huge element into what is making the industry get so many eyes on it right now. Yeah and I don't have a I just to be clear I don't have a problem with either side of it like I because it's entertainment for me I mean it like the first been back you know right at two years back in it and the first year it was just entertainment with my kids you know daddy and the boys like you know I'm close to my kids anyway and they surprisingly like that you know and so I didn't need the cards necessarily for them to like me but it brought us even closer together so it was worth every penny every box every you know piece of trash my wife complained about to just have that time and entertainment with them and and it was you know like it wasn't I guess it's gambling but the surprise and delight of getting cards and because we're in the sports big but we just weren't in the cards so we knew all the players so to start ripping packs and maybe getting stuff of value plus knowing the players and get to see the artwork because I hadn't been back in but I hadn't seen the new parallels in yes 20 years you know like it was just a lot of entertainment surprise and delight and it didn't hit me or I didn't sort of connect the dots or even try to connect them till nearly a year back into it the business you know and investment and all that side of it it was just pure joy entertainment the first year and I think it's okay to have both yes and like I couldn't agree with that more and there's nothing wrong with either side to it I love what you said they're with surprise and delight and I think that's really where people need to draw the line on in that this is not something especially when we're talking about the modern product that's coming out today yeah the odds of that are stacked against you from a purchasing product perspective like do not think that buying this box of cards is going to make you money and that this is like a trading sort of thing we're like you're buying X and selling for Y and there's a delta between like that's not going to happen yeah and I think people are getting upset because the way that breaking is getting advertised it's that you know I'm going to buy into this break for 20 bucks and pull this $20,000 card and this is so wonderful and it's really you know messing with people's finances and at the same time you have this macro trend that's super super relevant and fanatics is just launched into the prediction markets but you have apps like Calche and basically the United States being all in on gambling like we're going to legalize sports gambling we're going to legalize you gambling on what the Fed funds rate is going to be or whether or not Taylor Swift wears red or blue in her you know half time show like we are all in on predicting everything and it's up to the consumer to be able to have the discipline to not gamble and yeah that is happening at the same time as sports cards are having this massive resurgence and credit to fanatics credit to Michael Rubin who is a absolutely stud businessman it's seeing this and being like we're going to ride the wave of like a consumer behavior shift in America which is total speculation gambling is on the rise and this is what on you know for better or worse we are allowing what we want so you know whether or not you like it if it's aside the point like that's where we're at so you need to essentially adopt or move on you know yes agreeing that's interesting and I think it's okay though like have both sides in like I don't know it's like the gambling genie isn't going back in the bottle and so you can feel about it have you want but it's up to you to have discernment and discipline and if you don't to cite no different if you eat a thousand pieces of cheesecake a week you're going to be fat and if you don't go to the gym you're probably going to have diabetes and so like again you might sell a few thousand pieces of cheesecake but I mean it's no different you know you can't spend your whole paycheck on on rip in boxes or you're not going to have any money and so sorry and and I look I mean I'm not shoot I've bought a few too many not I never bought what I couldn't afford with my kids but definitely bought more of it I was like more than we spent a lot of money yeah but it was but I never at one time did it and went it wasn't fun it was there's a blast and it's it's entertainment and and unlike a scratch card there was still value sitting on the table it might not have been a hundred percent of what I put in it but we pay to go to the movies so you know and you walk away with nothing when you leave the movies the cards you at least still have and yeah I really like that point I talk about it a lot as to why the hobby is the best hobby you know I'm a huge golfer avid golfer it is the one thing I do to get away from thinking about this stuff and it is an expensive hobby and all of the money you put into golf is absolutely sunk it is gone you pay a hundred bucks for greens fee you're not getting that money back but when you think about sports card hobby to your point it is fun to actually engage in it like open the packs see your favorite players see the artwork you know you can't see it I've got a lot of my collection displayed behind me and I I've put significant money into these cards but it's not really sunk I'm going to get that capital back which is to sell it and for my specific invest the collecting taste like I'm going to get more capital out of it than what I put into it and that is like a cheat code of a hobby like if I'm going to spend my free time and make money or at least at the very least not lose it it's them it's it's why it's one of the the coolest hobbies to me is somebody that does have like a very much skewed towards personal finances and interest and uh I I love that you bring that up and I think when done correctly it is probably the most economically viable hobby in the world yeah it is totally talking with Gordy bonkers bonkers what I mean what a great name you know like perfect for cards and fun and media oh you know you never do that because it's like bonkers like thinking you're on up but it's like it puts it puts me in that hole I don't know nostalgic mindset yeah I I'm so thankful for my name I'm actually the second it's a family name and I remember being a kid sometimes getting teased about my name and I fully like leaned into that and you know I remember I wrote my college paper on what the likelihood of having somebody named Gordy bonkers applied at Penn State was and I I actually divided you know two which was me and my dad divided by the world population and it was this absurdly low percentage and then talked about all the obscure things that are more likely to happen than have a Gordy bonkers applied to your university and I do think that is why I got into all the schools that I got into because they got a kick out of that paper when I started you know actually marketing myself I've always put bonkers in the name you know my financial newsletter was the bonker beat and it was really supposed to be like I was a beat writer talking about what was happening economically and then with bonkers cards you do have that just it's easy to remember it's thankfully it is my name as well and I'm always really specific about the way that I market myself I want people to know who Gordy bonkers so I'm very calculated and always marketing my name to whatever business venture I'm moving into smart from a brand new standpoint very smart answer to your name but then leaning into the fact that it has what it means and you know always going bonkers you know like bonkers breaks I mean there's so many I mean I'm sure you got them all written down or using them because the bonkers car is a you know it's perfect like say exactly it's what you want I want there to my ripple pack I wanted to be bonkers you know it means it means a lot coming from a marketing guru like yourself you like that because I definitely put some thought into it so thank you yeah it's been so talk to me it's funny like the hobby and media to me and you know what you're doing with your content and leaning into it there's there's a ton of opportunity and a ton of demand I mean you think about all the I mean my kids part of what got my kids and I back into it I mean one went to a retail store they're like we should buy that box cards like all you want box cards and then it was like then it was YouTube you know king cards whoever non-stop on the TV it's card shows there's just this I don't know relentless demand for more content pack opening shows trades all that stuff I mean talk to me about the media aspect for you yeah you know when I think about 2026 like the in my personal business I want to double down on the media side of the hobby as a business I think advertisers don't fully understand like how passionate collectors are and also the number of new collectors that are coming into the market thanks to Michael Rubin fanatics the amount of marketing dollars that are being spent by the larger companies in the hobby and for people to build meaningful audiences that are specifically in this category we have a pretty good understanding of who's watching the content oftentimes in terms of like demographics right highly skews male highly skews some level of discretionary income spend I think like those are really exciting things for a advertiser that wants to partner with somebody that has built a meaningful audience I think that the hobby is going to continue to grow to your point where there is is this sensational demand for more of the content from people that are scrolling their phone watching you do have King of the cards Kyle who does a phenomenal job there card collector to somebody that I always bring up as well that does great content sports sports cards nonsense my show sports card investor with Jeff Wilson and those guys and there's still like a huge demand for more of it and I think it shows that it is a category that people want to be further educated on so a lot of times you'll people will see short form clips of my stuff but they're like yes I want to know more about that topic more than just the 30 seconds you just gave me like where can I go for that and that's why I started writing a little bit further longer form stuff on my sub stack on my newsletter I started you know I we did this deal with sports card nonsense for the Gordy Bunker show that I have long form content getting published once a week about things that I find interesting on the market guess like that have specific points of reference to the industry like that is going to continue to grow and I I'm waiting for that moment when we actually see a shift from the brands that want to sponsor this content only being hobby related to brands to you know just larger blue chip names that whether it be consumer product goods space or wherever that just like want a piece of this action and I think it's coming it's just a matter of when good thank you Gordy yes it is coming 100% number one you do great job you got to check out all Gordy shows which will have I love the sports card nonsense guys we've done some deals and things together and geo the voice of the hobby I gave him that title and the all those guys I like all of them and I think there's a tremendous gap like you said with brands understanding that and I've made it my mission with what we're doing with this show and what we're building with now to be released collector nation with sort of telling that story of of the collector community of creators and media and getting the word out to the bigger brands and bringing because look it's two a street of winning the collectors win because they get them you know what they should get which is the dollars because they've built audience and the brands get an affluent audience that purchases and has purchase power and it's a demo that's in high demand yeah and that's a win win and it's times that happen at a broader scale yeah and you're seeing you know people are trying to claim that land and they are continuously you know trying to bridge that gap to you point with companies and brands to see that value yeah in the interim though I think it's been a fascinating thing for me to learn about with I think people want to support individual creators and you know my for example my newsletter on sub stack has a paid version for nine bucks a month you get additional writing and additional perks benefit support or whatever and you have people and it took me a while to actually promote that publicly it was just an option that sub stack had but I had people that were just paying me without me asking to say I want to support you I believe in what you're doing this is really good like here's my money and I was like wow there is this flywheel that that happens where people see content and then they want to support that specific creator and actually do business with them and so like a lot of my content a lot of the business that has come off of it has been you know people wanting to buy cards directly from me so if I'm educating them or talking them about the industry like what vintage cards you have for sale right now and then on the higher inside you know the last probably six months I've had a huge increase in activity of high net worth individuals that want to invest into the space and they want to trust it individual to broker them those cards they don't necessarily want to spend the time bidding or finding them and it's like I would rather go right to Gordy and tell him what I want and then have me go find them and bring that to them so you know there's been exciting opportunities in that way but yeah I'm still waiting for that moment where you know from the short form video content in some of like the brand deal activation for it to come through on my content because like to this day I still don't have really large brand deals outside of hobby related companies that have ever come to me and when I look at the audience in the reach that I have in terms of what my videos do it's way way higher out performing than a lot of what the just traditional content creators that are lifestyle content creators do yeah well Gordy then you know we twist in your arm to come on click and they said to make those deals happen for you yeah it's true like that's it it's just the fact yeah it is the fact and it shouldn't be there's a lot of quasi influencers uh they're getting those deals yeah and true influencers like yourself you know that are doing fine and have figured out that and I own the trademark for this it pays to be known Gordy bonkers proven it and but there's a gap between the brands that are spending money spending it on the influencers that actually have influence yeah great yeah yeah and that's what needs to change especially as it relates to the hobby in collecting because it's a it's got both both sides of what we said people that are there for entertainment but it's in a fluid audience that's you know like myself that you know is you know nostalgic reasons come back to the hobby but you know is in their late mid 40s and early 50s so they have discretionary income but they have children in it and it's like it's and then you've got the collecting side of it and so it's it's wild I love having conversations like this partly because like I don't have the opportunity to do it often obviously I don't know the exact odd the listener right now if they have the personal interest in like business and media business and things of that nature but it definitely skews that way I get a lot of messages and it's we've got a very astute audience so is the audience are there also just like pure collectors that are listening because they want to know more about the hobby specifically because obviously with your mind a lot of business people see I'm I'm bringing I'm working both sides here got it Gordon so they're you're listening you know who I'm talking to so a lot of it marketing executives a lot of people that listen to my business show are coming over going what is this collectibles thing and they're interested and so yeah but it's that's who it is I think yeah if there's one thing I wish you know I I could be critical of myself on from a content strategy thing this year for years when I was in the financial services world I wrote every day on LinkedIn like short form to long form written copy on LinkedIn every day and I was really adamant even to my candidates people like they should be writing on LinkedIn every day and as I got so ingrained into the hobby and like my primary platform when I started was TikTok that's my biggest current one I probably got 22 and change thousand followers there yep I was dedicating so much time to short form video on TikTok that I really stop posting on LinkedIn and one of the things that I really want to try to re-calibrate and focus on in 26 is sharing some of these contents more consistently on LinkedIn I mean it's it's no one's fault of my own like I know what the value of that audience is and I benefited from it for years when I was talking about the market that is your audience by the way yeah as you're as you're marketing advisor unpaid and then you didn't ask for it get the hell back over there now Gordon you know that is your audience I mean it's they're in there they're baked in there it's a fluid it's people that would appreciate the sophistication and knowledge that you have and they're they're there and I will try to reactivate that I think it was a different shift and I could feel it you know I was writing about the inflation report that was coming out month over month and then like going from that to being like I went to a card show and spent $50,000 on sports card like as like attention grabbing is that line might be the a lot of the audience doesn't want me to give them that information on that platform like they're used to me providing them different background so yeah you had better different audience yeah it's it's hard because there are certain people there that do find that interesting but there was a lot of my candidates that didn't even watch sports or you know they're just accountants that were focused on you know regulatory banking information like nothing to do with that so I need to re you know refocus and go for it there on LinkedIn you'll have to take two steps back to take seven forward which is you know like you said maybe so that existing audience that might get repaying immediately if you got reactivated that it isn't necessarily going to be that audience but the algorithm will bring the right ones and they're there and I would say it's actually ripe if there's if there's a place that has blue ocean there's not a lot of blue ocean left anywhere but you know but the best content stands out we you and I know that so yeah but you you mentioned right now on the different social media platforms from a marketing perspective take talk is you know gold especially if if you integrate shopping I think you know ironically the live things if you're doing what not you know going live on what not is its own media any live selling yeah it you know it's kind of its own form of media and I almost look at live selling for an hour the way I look at podcasting 10 years ago when I started podcasting I did podcasting 10 years ago with 200 listeners because I wanted the long form to cut it up in the short form to create the media I mean here's the here's the secret it's not a secret the hobby is media media is the hobby it's in commerce you know it's like commerce is media media is commerce it's it all feeds one another you know going live for an hour oh how much did you so know how much content did I create yeah how many while moments or just so you know like interesting you know deals happen or whatever happens in an hour of live it becomes content and that content can be monetized in a lot of different ways direct sponsorship more customers to what you do and so more you know more attention attention is currency yeah you current tension is both short term and long term currency everyone misses the long term I've done my show for eight years and done eight figures in revenue directly from my business podcast uh with really good profit margins and most of it happened year five onward wow so I played the long game yeah that's amazing and so content is a long game and short game it's uh it can be short short term attention viral content big moments you know gaining an audience the algorithms are changing but then this the long term of building brand repetitive same themes and look you know you replay your greatest hits you know like that's one thing people don't do replay it's like how many commercials do you see over and over and over again but then we do one video when we play it one time it's like what are you doing I love I love so much of of what you just shared there and I want to go back to the live selling piece yeah I mean that is when I left my job a few years ago that was what I've made my bet on that I was going to make a living for my wife and I was live selling I was going to car shows in the weekend buying cards and selling them on tiktok live and I recognize the same thing that you were talking about early on that this is not only um the action of me selling cards directly but it is entertainment for the viewer like they are choosing to watch bonkers cards live on sunday night at eight o'clock on tiktok versus watching a rerun of something on tv or whatever whether that was 50 people or 500 people and when it started it was it was like that it wasn't a lot of people and the consistency of showing up and I did that for almost two years I was doing it every sunday night Tuesday night and Thursday night two hours a night and I did that for a while and the way that my personal life has changed so much from a business perspective I can only allocate now sunday nights eight PM Eastern that's always been my strongest viewership but when I go on there it is amazing to see the engagement that I get the viewer count is obviously great but to your point it is um I just sold a sponsorship deal for my live show so that at the start of the show in the middle show at the end of the show I'm reading an advertisement for a hobby company that is the official presenting sponsor of Gordy bonkers and bonkers cards live like that piece of attention is so valuable because those you know my live show will carry somewhere on the last sunday I had about 250 concurrent viewers watching throughout the course of the night you get across to 5,000 people that will stop in the show yeah and we can confirm the I mean that's that's a super valuable audience and it was when I first started to cross that number of 100 concurrent people watching you know when I show a 1966 Pete Rose SGC seven for 200 bucks it will sell immediately because of the amount of people that are interested in this card that wanted so you know I recognize the value of the audience and the attention there but um to the point that you're talking about how it's an entertainment vessel I think that's something that as this medium grows and you're seeing Gary Vee talk a lot about it right now that influencers you know a lot of them will should shift their attention towards live selling because of the audience in your engagement and attention that it drives I think the content within the live selling has a is a lot of opportunity too yeah there's there you got the screen and you're and they're in there and you don't take away for what it is but there's a lot of space for different things and I'm not saying we're gonna add commercials but if you did it right there's other ways to leverage that screen yeah and you know if it really goes too though and I there's this is not a knock at anyone for trying and anybody who is live selling on what not or TikTok like keep doing it because it changed my life but if you look at what the base of sellers are doing on those platforms it is a still shot of pair of hands or a Zion case of card sitting there and it is incredibly boring yeah one of the things that my show is different on is that I'm constantly voicing over tidbits about the sports card market the history of the players there's constant turnover in the cards I I've always been a sales guy I came out of school I've been in sales for five years I want to sell product I'm not in the business of holding it so as soon as I make money it goes I'm not trying to make a killing on any of the cards there's a huge mindset shift that needs to happen for sellers to do well they you need to be engaged with your audience you need to sell move product there needs to be audio that is enticing to people I talk about the live selling platform for me it's similar to a radio show this needs to be a radio show no dead air keep the audience entertained and that is something where a lot of people might go to what not or TikTok and I get a lot of messages like this hey man no one buys my stuff there's nobody in the room there's only five people here and look at the end of the day you need to flip it around and be a little accountable to be like how do I make this more engaging for somebody and I I share that honestly just to help people and I think that's something that if the people that do it right are going to dominate in live selling yep everybody's favorite radio station is w i i f m what's in it for me baby yeah and you got to remember that it's not about what's in it for you the creator it's what's in it for them and there to be both yeah they want to buy some cards at a good deal but they want to be entertained yes you know we live in the TikTok nation so yeah need to be entertaining educating or inspiring entertainment yeah it's like yeah if you do one of those three things man I really think that you you're on the right path and you know I I'm a definitely a student of Gary V. I've been listening to him since I was right out of college and I think people underestimate the value of content like this you know if you just are observing and you listen to people that clearly know what they're talking about or have been successful in some ventures of life like you can apply that in your own life and I think sometimes people don't recognize their own potential in that way no but I recognize uh gordy bonkers are essential it's as far as you want to go baby hey man as we wrap up here for one I'm going to ask if we can do this you know on the reg when you have time I'd love to have you on and talk what you're up to and you know bring your knowledge and education to our audience so I hope you'll be willing to come back yeah man absolutely I'd love to I think that's awesome now we've mentioned it we'll have it in the show notes but drop all the deets for how people can work with you see what you're selling learn from you etc yeah so you know if anyone's interested in you know the brokering side of the business are getting into specific cards I always read my email at bonkerscards at gmail.com my social media handles everywhere on tiktok instagram youtube everything is at bonkerscards it's the same handle every platform and then the thing that I'm like the most excited about is my newsletter I'm doubling down on my writing I've always loved to write and it's the base of my membership so the bonkerscards club is my paid community it's 899 a month it gives you bonus access to my writing thoughts observations about sports card market it also gets you a part of the club so I have all club members get invited to a monthly zoom call I host and I talk about what's happening in the market I brought guests on from across the industry to speak to the club our final club meeting I don't know when this is airing but it's Monday December 22nd people are around to want to join the bonkerscards club and you can check that all that content by going to bonkerscards.substac.com and yeah man I'm on instagram I'm starting to get more of a focus on instagram I started on tiktok so if you're searching me my tiktok audience is more robust than instagram weirdly which isn't usually the case but I'm excited to continue to build and grow that there and yeah you can listen to the gordie bonkers show every Wednesday on the sports cards nonsense youtube channel that's my long form youtube podcast that's wherever you get podcasts as well so check them out and I think that's everything man hey I love it and I love that you're with sports card nonsense guys love those guys they're good people and you gotta check that out so gordie I am gonna do this so I'm gonna leave a teaser to say hey if you didn't listen to the end you didn't get the scoop what's this one card or two or handfuls under a hundred that you would tell our audience to buy or think about under a hundred and then maybe from a hundred to a thousand like one one or two you know from a hundred and under for maybe that value crowd or someone that you know that's this newer that's not dropping hundreds on everything and then maybe a couple cards that are in that hundred to a thousand that's a big range but a hundred to a thousand so you can start with either one first the hundred to a thousand is probably gonna be an easier category I would say if you were in that budget you're gonna be able to get any of the Hall of Famers from the 1950s so for me if it was purely like on the investment side of things in terms of like a store of value yeah I would try to identify the earliest playing year Mickey Mantle card that you can get his career span from 1951 to 69 so his 60s cards you'll definitely be able to afford and that hundred to a thousand dollar price point can't get anything into mantle under a hundred bucks I personally love Jackie Robinson stuff as well and you can get into Jackie Robinson stuff probably the cheapest Jackie cards are 1955 56 cards you could probably get low grade copies of those for two to three hundred bucks and Jackie Robinson Mickey Mantle those guys are never gonna lose value when you're playing in vintage cards specifically under a hundred bucks it's a hard category to me because you wouldn't be at 50s or 60s cards that are of like quality in that I think many sleepers in the 70s 80s or 90s yeah yeah that's where I was going with it yeah I think you have to think about what the lowest population counts are of culturally or historically significant players from the 1970s so those even if you were to creep into the 80s you know it gets really touchy with the jump guax era yeah but that's a great question for that budget perspective I like this but I like this you know I don't know bow jacks and McGuire cards I mean are they are the pops just so high yeah that's way too high I honestly I'm where I was going to go though was a figure from that time period I would say if you're looking into the 80s 90s Ken Griffey Jr. is going to become the next Mickey Mantle he was the guy for me how old are you when Griffey was like the stud uh uh there he's got yeah um that's just a seven I don't you know I wouldn't leave uh well it's been laying on the coffee table but uh yeah that card right there there you go $100 budget you could get that card for around a hundred bucks right now yeah exactly like as high as the pop counts are he was the guy and he he captivated a generation of what got me into it yeah yeah that's my generation that was it that was the chase card so 89 thank it I'll go with the Ken Griffey Jr. upper deck in a grade seven for a hundred or under and there you go all famous uh a hundred two thousand I love it I didn't even have to lead the witness and he was going there anyway um I got my Ernie Banks laying here too I mean I got there you know like that's a nice one yeah yeah no it's a 67 yep yeah and this guy yes I think we got matching ones I'm sure mine's a five PSA five this is an SGC five there we go I just sold this uh this is out the door today to somebody 250 bucks so that's a cool card because it has Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays and Harmon Kill Group three of the best players home run hitters of their time I bought that for 60 55 like I don't know like a year ago that's an amazing feel man so yeah that's a great example of the appreciation side I know dude I can do this all day with you really appreciate you for coming on can't wait to do it again thank you so much yes sir thank you so much for having me collectibles.show is where you'll find all of the channels and learn more about what we're doing and ultimately hey we'll want to hear from you you do case hits at collectibles.show what you to send in your favorite pulls of the week and here's the difference this isn't about just value hey we want to see some $10,000 hits had a couple of those myself a few months back but it's not just about the values about what you're collecting what means something to you share a story share a video of you holding up the card that you hit last week that was your favorite player and you nailed it so case hits at collectibles.show send in those videos I want to know the stories we're going to bring into life here on the show we're going to do a segment each week once we get rolling and get some videos in where we share that on the show with us we'll feature you on collectibles.show thanks for tuning into the show don't forget to follow us on your favorite podcast platform and don't miss the full video version on youtube you can find us at www.collectibles.show or follow Ryan on instagram at Ryanolford now get out there and collect yours